19th Century German hunting Sword

kronckew · 9th December 2013, 03:56 PM

any other markings on the blade? looks like something about 1/4 the way down from the grip.

a quick search did not reveal anything on that sun marking near the hilt. i'm sure our other experts have much better reference materials tho.

many swords had blades made in solingen, and were hilted in other countries, such as france. curved hunting sabres/hangers were not the norm. looks a bit too simple for french tho

y'all liked them ornate back then.

i'm sure a ship's officer would have liked to carry a handy weapon like that tho. my initial impression was 18c but it's not really an area i'm very knowledgeable in.

Jim McDougall · 10th December 2013, 05:28 AM

Neekee welcome to the forum!! and thank you for sharing this very nice hanger which while of the general form of European hunting swords would be hard to classify as 'German'. I would presume this more likely 18th century as Kronckew has noted, and as he also has suggested, there does seem to be some kind of configuration further down the blade.

The deep circular stamp near the forte seems possibly to be a rather stylized version of what is often termed loosely the 'Dutch star' ("Blanke Wapens", Puype, p.50) which commonly occurred on Dutch blades. According to notes from Fernando taken from a Dutch curator, these radiating figures similar to a sunburst or sunflower were a kind of paternoster. As often the case, these kinds of marks are not attributed to a particular maker, but favored by certain groups or regions in varying periods and applied in rather a talismanic sense. Other dialogue has suggested these often deep set devices seem to have ceased use about middle of 18th c.

While Solingen indeed provided many blades to European markets, a number of smiths emigrated to Netherlands where they continued production.

These hangers were favored by gentry and nobility as riding swords and were favored as well by officers, often naval as Kronkew notes. These swords were also often considered dress or even court swords.The stylized nature of the stamp suggests this blade may be later in 18th century, and the form was in use into the 19th, but this example seems probably Dutch mid to later 18th century.

neekee · 10th December 2013, 07:10 PM

Thanks a lot for the insightful comments guys. I closely examined the blade again but couldn't find any other markings. The "sun" marking is on both side of the blades though, and I will provide new detailed shots with this post.

Thanks again !

kronckew · 11th December 2013, 05:05 AM

interesting tip. the dutch seem to like the clipped point on their sabres & klewangs.

Jim McDougall · 11th December 2013, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

interesting tip. the dutch seem to like the clipped point on their sabres & klewangs.

Q.E.D.

M ELEY · 12th December 2013, 02:09 AM

Gorgeous piece! A fine hanger, as used by both hunting gentry, infantry and naval officers of the period. I'd add that it probably is earlier- ca. 1700-30, based on flat cap pommel, shell guard (in vogue from 1700 on, earlier types jutted straight out from piece) and knuckle bow with ball decoration mid-curve (fell out of favor after 1730's). Thus, a hanger we can date more concisely than most. A hanger I'd be proud to own! No, I mean it! If you ever decide to sell...

neekee · 12th December 2013, 12:07 PM

ahaha, sorry M ELEY, it's a family gift ^^

Thanks for the additional info though. So, so far, we've got:

. marking suggests a Dutch blade.
. classified as "hanger" (this word doesn't exist in French apparently), so not necessarily used for hunting
. early to late 18th century, which is awesome news to me ^^

I sure wish my great uncle was still around so I could ask him where it came from. This makes me really curious to know if it actually came down the family line or he purchased it himself.

Thanks a lot again to all of you

10th December 2013, 07:10 PM	#3
neekee Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: France Posts: 12	Thanks a lot for the insightful comments guys. I closely examined the blade again but couldn't find any other markings. The "sun" marking is on both side of the blades though, and I will provide new detailed shots with this post. Thanks again ! Attached Images

9th December 2013, 03:56 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,232	any other markings on the blade? looks like something about 1/4 the way down from the grip. a quick search did not reveal anything on that sun marking near the hilt. i'm sure our other experts have much better reference materials tho. many swords had blades made in solingen, and were hilted in other countries, such as france. curved hunting sabres/hangers were not the norm. looks a bit too simple for french tho y'all liked them ornate back then. i'm sure a ship's officer would have liked to carry a handy weapon like that tho. my initial impression was 18c but it's not really an area i'm very knowledgeable in.

10th December 2013, 05:28 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,379	Neekee welcome to the forum!! and thank you for sharing this very nice hanger which while of the general form of European hunting swords would be hard to classify as 'German'. I would presume this more likely 18th century as Kronckew has noted, and as he also has suggested, there does seem to be some kind of configuration further down the blade. The deep circular stamp near the forte seems possibly to be a rather stylized version of what is often termed loosely the 'Dutch star' ("Blanke Wapens", Puype, p.50) which commonly occurred on Dutch blades. According to notes from Fernando taken from a Dutch curator, these radiating figures similar to a sunburst or sunflower were a kind of paternoster. As often the case, these kinds of marks are not attributed to a particular maker, but favored by certain groups or regions in varying periods and applied in rather a talismanic sense. Other dialogue has suggested these often deep set devices seem to have ceased use about middle of 18th c. While Solingen indeed provided many blades to European markets, a number of smiths emigrated to Netherlands where they continued production. These hangers were favored by gentry and nobility as riding swords and were favored as well by officers, often naval as Kronkew notes. These swords were also often considered dress or even court swords.The stylized nature of the stamp suggests this blade may be later in 18th century, and the form was in use into the 19th, but this example seems probably Dutch mid to later 18th century.

11th December 2013, 05:05 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,232	interesting tip. the dutch seem to like the clipped point on their sabres & klewangs.

12th December 2013, 02:09 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,178	Gorgeous piece! A fine hanger, as used by both hunting gentry, infantry and naval officers of the period. I'd add that it probably is earlier- ca. 1700-30, based on flat cap pommel, shell guard (in vogue from 1700 on, earlier types jutted straight out from piece) and knuckle bow with ball decoration mid-curve (fell out of favor after 1730's). Thus, a hanger we can date more concisely than most. A hanger I'd be proud to own! No, I mean it! If you ever decide to sell...

12th December 2013, 12:07 PM	#7
neekee Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: France Posts: 12	ahaha, sorry M ELEY, it's a family gift ^^ Thanks for the additional info though. So, so far, we've got: . marking suggests a Dutch blade. . classified as "hanger" (this word doesn't exist in French apparently), so not necessarily used for hunting . early to late 18th century, which is awesome news to me ^^ I sure wish my great uncle was still around so I could ask him where it came from. This makes me really curious to know if it actually came down the family line or he purchased it himself. Thanks a lot again to all of you