13th-15th C. Horse Harness Tournament Pendants

[Matchlock]

Let me go on with my attachments.

Please note that Peter Finer's item, besides enameling, features a gilt Gothic minusule a.


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[Matchlock]

Two more details of the fine enameled and gilt specimen from Peter Finer's site.

[Matchlock]

One more 13th c. representation of a knight on horseback and ready for the joust.

Please note the horse pendants marked red.


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[fernando]

Being here in this forum and whatching all that is posted, is equivalent to visiting (countless) museums ... believe me

[kronckew]

cool!

too often we concentrate on the weapon, and forget it is part of a weapons system. the scabbard, scabbard mounts, belting, strapping, attachments, etc. all work to provide the system, and are important to provide the context of their use, and the where, who, what, why and when to complete the picture...

tournament accoutrements would have been high status items requiring the best detailing and decorative art, beyond the more simple found on the battle field.

many of these small but important bits of information are never found on battle fields. sometimes NOTHING is found where a major battle was supposed to have occurred. i think it was agincourt (or was it crecy?), where thousands of french nobility and men at arms died and tens of thousand arrows expended, not a single arrow point, no lost weapon fragments, no graves, have ever been found on the fields where it supposedly happened. only 4 graves can be successfully located at a nearby church. conjecture is the earliest references to the battle site were just guesswork, written many decades or centuries after the battle.

i suspect, our sports arenas, tend to be more fixed locations, colosseums in europe still being used, no longer for gladiators, but still for the bulls. areas for target practice and practice of arms for and in tourneys in cities tend to be fixed and maintain if not the purpose, the names of the sections. many lost items awaiting discovery.

tudor london, showing archers in the fields north of moor gate and bishops gate: for info - the minimum practice target distance for a man of 24 was set by law at 220 yards. all men were required to practice on sunday.

[cornelistromp]

from the mediëval horse and its equipement, mediëval finds from excavations in london 1150-1450. this is paperwork, please check the real thing in the previous posts, especially the suspension mounts, which are rarely found and even rarer with pendants still attached.

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by fernando

Being here in this forum and whatching all that is posted, is equivalent to visiting (countless) museums ... believe me

Well, 'Nando,

It is with all due respect that I dare note that not one single museum in the world can present its attenders with anything nearing either the complexity or variety of the stuff, be it real or in documents, that our fantastic archives can contribute to the forum.

Best, and simultaneously thankful,
Michl

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Well, 'Nando,

It is with all due respect that I dare note that not one single museum in the world can present its attenders with anything nearing either the complexity or variety of the stuff, be it real or in documents, that our fantastic archives can contribute to the forum.

Best, and simultaneously thankful,
Michl

Absolutely Michael!!! and thank you so much for this topic! This is what is even more exciting than many of the arms themselves is this kind of esoterica seldom, if ever, discussed in the literature. I had never heard of these before.
It sounds like perhaps in these tournaments certain knights had 'sponsors' ? Obviously the 'cliche' of the lady showing favor to a certain knight with an item of hers carried by him is well known in the books and movies etc. but this sounds almost like sports sponsoring .
I especially enjoy the great excerpts from these references you and Jasper have shown and the examples. Fascinating!

Kronkew has perfectly described another aspect or phenomenon of the study of medieval knightly battles I had not been fully aware of, that there are few, if any, archaeological remnants of these battles . I do look forward to more entries on this and the attachments.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

It sounds like perhaps in these tournaments certain knights had 'sponsors' ? ..

... Ah, most certainly Jim ... in their own (period) manner

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...Kronkew has perfectlyscribed another aspect or phenomenon of the study of medieval knightly battles I had not been fully aware of, that there are few, if any, archaeological remnants of these battles ..

This riddle must surely be a matter for discussion among historians and archeologists. In my poorest perspective a couple of reasons must be in the origin of such mistery. First and, as suggested, spots where battles took place are both imprecise and rather disperse, covering vast areas, thus not enabling for concentration of battle remnants. I guess that where conflicts took place in more concentrated or inequivocal areas, like sieging or assaulting fortifications, probabilities of finding abandoned stuff are higher. I am thinking, for one, of the number of crossbow bolts i can see (and acquire) in Lisbon arms shops, found in the outskirts of the local Moorish/Christian castle, origin of various historical conflicts. Surely objects of higher value are also found there, but not exposed by the dozen in public shops . I suspect another reason for not finding things in battle fields out in the open is because they are actually found by anonimous locals, on grounds of picking souvenirs, for the various reasons, right after events take place, leaving no left overs for 'official finders'.

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Absolutely Michael!!! and thank you so much for this topic! This is what is even more exciting than many of the arms themselves is this kind of esoterica seldom, if ever, discussed in the literature. I had never heard of these before.
It sounds like perhaps in these tournaments certain knights had 'sponsors' ? Obviously the 'cliche' of the lady showing favor to a certain knight with an item of hers carried by him is well known in the books and movies etc. but this sounds almost like sports sponsoring .
I especially enjoy the great excerpts from these references you and Jasper have shown and the examples. Fascinating!

Kronkew has perfectly described another aspect or phenomenon of the study of medieval knightly battles I had not been fully aware of, that there are few, if any, archaeological remnants of these battles . I do look forward to more entries on this and the attachments.

Hi Jim,


After all I have read and studied in Anglistics seminars year after year in the 1970's and early 1980's (I took my State Exam at Regensburg University in 1982), and I sure had my fill reading on idealized medieval Minne - which meant the absolutely idealistic, high-held and untouchable ideal of platonic love to an already married (usually to a king!) and hence completely out-of-reach courtly lady - a kind of ove of course totally unaccepted by the instution of The Roman Catholic Church. Such a love basically bound to fail was the famous tale of Guinevere (the wife of King Arthur) and Sir Lancelot of the Lake (du Lac) from Thomas Malory's magnum opus Morte d'Arthure.
Nobody won, they all died in gruesome gores. All those both endlessly and mercilessly reiterated stereotype rituals (e.g. They walked in the blood of their enemies up to their knees, ... then they hearde (!) masse in the morning, etc. etc.): to me they were nothing but a manifestation of a long-since unstoppabable decline of knightly ideals once held as high as the mystic Holy Grail was for hundreds of years. To hear and see them presented so low down and trampled into the dirt thus openly just blew my mind ... It was both a bitter and tragic swan song on knightly ideas once so noble ...

Anyone here has ever read the original 15th c.Medieval Englisch version of Le Morte d'Arture? Malory wrote it during many years of imprisonment. If you did not, you sure a very lucky guy retaining a sound, sober and sane mind.



Now, was there jealousy in those days? Oh yeah, those folks sure shared all the most basic ardent feeings of the human soul and mind! And they were ready to massacre literally anybody for the strong feelings in their souls ... and to take the final blame as well.

Was there financial sponsoring? The sources do not mention such a term way too profane for the medieval mind - but yes, this one humble Mediavist here on the forum is absolutely sure because all those basic human feelings shook the Medieval world and and its knights to the very
bone of their earthly existence 500 years ago!


With my very best wishes,
Michael