South East Asian knife? Need help!!

Sajen · 5th December 2013, 05:16 PM

Have won this knife from a german auction house, seems to be a nice blade but i only have this picture. It is 30 cm long. Have someone a guess from where it could be or seen something similar before?

CharlesS · 5th December 2013, 06:30 PM

Between the blade and the hilt, something about this is saying "Sumatran" to me, but I could very well be wrong. It doesn't exactly fit any "type", but very interesting and clear made for use nonetheless.

Looking forward to hearing other thoughts.

Rick · 5th December 2013, 07:01 PM

Don't we see these antler point hilts in Thai knives ?
Not that I think Thai when I look at the blade ...

Sajen · 5th December 2013, 07:35 PM

Thank you Charles and Rick,

frankly said I have had the same thoughts like Rick because the antler hilt and style of scabbard, look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16521

Have the hope that someone have seen or own a similar one and know more.

CharlesS · 5th December 2013, 08:53 PM

You know the more I look at this and add in the scabbard the more I a thinking Thai too.

I will see if I can find some matching blade profiles.

Sajen · 5th December 2013, 11:10 PM

Have get a very informed statement by email. This knife coming from Cambodia or Thailand border to Cambodia and is a so called e-nep thai "Khmer" kukri. The scabbard is traditional to Cambodia, the used metal for the fittings most probable from samrit, a brass alloy with worthy metal content.
The knife is with 30 cm rather small but very typical.

Are there other members with such a knife?

Battara · 6th December 2013, 12:41 AM

I have seen a dha dagger once with everything typical except it had an antler hilt like this one.

Sorry no pictures though.

David · 6th December 2013, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Don't we see these antler point hilts in Thai knives ?
Not that I think Thai when I look at the blade …

Are people here thinking that the antler is original to the blade. To me it looks like a replacement.

Sajen · 6th December 2013, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Are people here thinking that the antler is original to the blade. To me it looks like a replacement.

My friend, who have given me the informations in up write me that this knives have such an antler handle.

Regards,

Detlef

CharlesS · 6th December 2013, 04:47 PM

Sajen,

Here are two knives that I found with similar blade profiles, but neither is identical to yours as yours has a more straight spine. These were my reasons for first suggesting a Sumatran origin to the knife that is the subject at hand, and then wondering if it may be Thai.

The top one here is Sumatran and the bottom one Thai or Burmese.

The blade profile of the bottom one is slightly closer to yours.

Battara · 6th December 2013, 05:16 PM

Charles the bottom one is my favorite!

(I know -not helpful

)

blue lander · 6th December 2013, 05:52 PM

Here's a picture of a modern Thai e-nep. The general shape does look similar.

Sajen · 6th December 2013, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Sajen,

Here are two knives that I found with similar blade profiles, but neither is identical to yours as yours has a more straight spine. These were my reasons for first suggesting a Sumatran origin to the knife that is the subject at hand, and then wondering if it may be Thai.

The top one here is Sumatran and the bottom one Thai or Burmese.

The blade profile of the bottom one is slightly closer to yours.

Charles,

thank you for showing this two nice knives. The bottom one seems to belong to the same family also when the blade profile is different, beautiful example with the ivory handle and the blade lamination.

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 6th December 2013, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Charles the bottom one is my favorite!

(I know -not helpful

)

Both are beautiful examples, the Sumatra badik is awesome as well!!

Sajen · 6th December 2013, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

Here's a picture of a modern Thai e-nep. The general shape does look similar.

Thank you for posting this knife. My friend already write me that this knives are still in use, old ones and new ones.

Regards,
Detlef

ibeam · 9th December 2013, 10:59 PM

Hi Sajen,

Do you have a close up of the blade? Like to see the detail on the spine of the blade...

Sajen · 10th December 2013, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibeam

Hi Sajen,

Do you have a close up of the blade? Like to see the detail on the spine of the blade...

Hi Ibeam,

it's the only picture I have for the moment, don't have the knife in hand until now. Will take some pictures when I received it.

Regards,

Detlef

Andrew · 10th December 2013, 04:21 PM

Here is one of mine with a similar blade profile. My example is definitely Thai.

David · 10th December 2013, 07:41 PM

Isn't there more to IDing the origin of this blade than simply the blade profile? There are, after all, only so many logic blade profiles in the world of edged weapons and we see similarities in weapons from all over the world. What about other aspects of the blade design? For instance, i do NOT see the bolster that is obvious on Andrew's Thai example on Detlef's blade. And if we are going to look closely at just the blade profile, Detlef's spine is much straighter across than any of these other examples and it possesses something like "aring" sticking out at the base on the edge side that does not appear in the Thai examples.

Andrew · 10th December 2013, 08:37 PM

For clarification, I offered my example for comparison to Sajen's only. I do not necessarily have an opinion about his sword one way or the other.

David, I do not disagree with your observations. I would add that the file work along the top of the side shown is unlike any Thai or Burmese blade I have handled or seen.

If I had to opine, I would lean towards Sumatra...

David · 10th December 2013, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

If I had to opine, I would lean towards Sumatra…

That would be my guesstimate as well also considering the sheath form.

Emanuel · 10th December 2013, 08:48 PM

I'm seeing more of a filipino piece with modified handle.

See this bolo for similar blade profile and tenegre or binangon like this one for similar scabbard construction. A lot more Visayan on this forum cover the features of the knife in OP.

Emanuel

Nathaniel · 10th December 2013, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibeam

Hi Sajen,

Do you have a close up of the blade? Like to see the detail on the spine of the blade...

Yes, it would be great to see more close up photos when the blade comes in

Nathaniel · 10th December 2013, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

That would be my guesstimate as well also considering the sheath form.

The sheath is probably not all that distinct...on the SEA mainland similar could be found...with the simple brass bands and chape...black lacquer covering though I would agree and lean more towards Laos, Cambodia...could be the borders with Thailand.

Nathaniel · 10th December 2013, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

My friend, who have given me the informations in up write me that this knives have such an antler handle.

Regards,

Detlef

I agree...the handle could be a later replacement, but looks locally done though a bit crude. There are numerous blade profiles and several different handle styles on SEA...more than you usually see from the examples outside of SEA. Antler horn is not perhaps seen as much on the internet but you will find in used on the SEA mainland by the different Tai groups.

David · 11th December 2013, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

The sheath is probably not all that distinct...on the SEA mainland similar could be found...with the simple brass bands and chape...black lacquer covering though I would agree and lean more towards Laos, Cambodia...could be the borders with Thailand.

Do you have some examples to show Nathaniel. I'm having a hard time finding sheaths that look like this from the mainland.

Sajen · 11th December 2013, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

That would be my guesstimate as well also considering the sheath form.

Hello David,

have a look again to this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16521. By Robert's knife I have thought first Philippines, but I think that the knife Robert have shown coming from Cambodia/Thailand.

Let us wait until I have it in hand and can take some pictures.

Regards,

Detlef

Robert · 12th December 2013, 12:33 AM

My vote on the origin of this would also be Cambodia. Another interesting addition to your collection. I can not wait to see what you find next.

Best,
Robert

Nathaniel · 12th December 2013, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Do you have some examples to show Nathaniel. I'm having a hard time finding sheaths that look like this from the mainland.

Hello David,

Here are a couple examples that are similar:

Cambodian
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=81846

Lao
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13658

See Mak 2,(Cambodian) for similar brass decor on the handle.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6204

Burmese sheaths with brass scabbard decor:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6349

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6350

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5970

I will have to look more for the others I had in mind. I still have yet to comment as well about the blade.

David · 12th December 2013, 04:28 AM

Honestly Nathaniel, none of those really look similar to me other than that they are wooden sheaths with metal bands. Those materials are used all over SEA. I was hoping to see something with the same shape and profile of Detlef's example. Flat, wide, slightly wider at the bottom. The closest thing in this thread is in Emanuel's post # 22, the top sheath in the second photo.

5th December 2013, 05:16 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,202	South East Asian knife? Need help!! Have won this knife from a german auction house, seems to be a nice blade but i only have this picture. It is 30 cm long. Have someone a guess from where it could be or seen something similar before? Attached Images

6th December 2013, 04:47 PM	#10
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Sajen, Here are two knives that I found with similar blade profiles, but neither is identical to yours as yours has a more straight spine. These were my reasons for first suggesting a Sumatran origin to the knife that is the subject at hand, and then wondering if it may be Thai. The top one here is Sumatran and the bottom one Thai or Burmese. The blade profile of the bottom one is slightly closer to yours. Attached Images

6th December 2013, 05:52 PM	#12
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Here's a picture of a modern Thai e-nep. The general shape does look similar. Attached Images

10th December 2013, 04:21 PM	#18
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Here is one of mine with a similar blade profile. My example is definitely Thai. Attached Images

10th December 2013, 08:48 PM	#22
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	I'm seeing more of a filipino piece with modified handle. See this bolo for similar blade profile and tenegre or binangon like this one for similar scabbard construction. A lot more Visayan on this forum cover the features of the knife in OP. Emanuel Attached Images

5th December 2013, 06:30 PM	#2
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Between the blade and the hilt, something about this is saying "Sumatran" to me, but I could very well be wrong. It doesn't exactly fit any "type", but very interesting and clear made for use nonetheless. Looking forward to hearing other thoughts.

5th December 2013, 07:01 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Don't we see these antler point hilts in Thai knives ? Not that I think Thai when I look at the blade ...

5th December 2013, 07:35 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,202	Thank you Charles and Rick, frankly said I have had the same thoughts like Rick because the antler hilt and style of scabbard, look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16521 Have the hope that someone have seen or own a similar one and know more.

5th December 2013, 08:53 PM	#5
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	You know the more I look at this and add in the scabbard the more I a thinking Thai too. I will see if I can find some matching blade profiles.

5th December 2013, 11:10 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,202	Have get a very informed statement by email. This knife coming from Cambodia or Thailand border to Cambodia and is a so called e-nep thai "Khmer" kukri. The scabbard is traditional to Cambodia, the used metal for the fittings most probable from samrit, a brass alloy with worthy metal content. The knife is with 30 cm rather small but very typical. Are there other members with such a knife?

6th December 2013, 12:41 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I have seen a dha dagger once with everything typical except it had an antler hilt like this one. Sorry no pictures though.

6th December 2013, 05:16 PM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Charles the bottom one is my favorite! (I know -not helpful )

9th December 2013, 10:59 PM	#16
ibeam Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 134	Hi Sajen, Do you have a close up of the blade? Like to see the detail on the spine of the blade...

10th December 2013, 07:41 PM	#19
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Isn't there more to IDing the origin of this blade than simply the blade profile? There are, after all, only so many logic blade profiles in the world of edged weapons and we see similarities in weapons from all over the world. What about other aspects of the blade design? For instance, i do NOT see the bolster that is obvious on Andrew's Thai example on Detlef's blade. And if we are going to look closely at just the blade profile, Detlef's spine is much straighter across than any of these other examples and it possesses something like "aring" sticking out at the base on the edge side that does not appear in the Thai examples.

10th December 2013, 08:37 PM	#20
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	For clarification, I offered my example for comparison to Sajen's only. I do not necessarily have an opinion about his sword one way or the other. David, I do not disagree with your observations. I would add that the file work along the top of the side shown is unlike any Thai or Burmese blade I have handled or seen. If I had to opine, I would lean towards Sumatra...

12th December 2013, 12:33 AM	#28
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	My vote on the origin of this would also be Cambodia. Another interesting addition to your collection. I can not wait to see what you find next. Best, Robert

12th December 2013, 04:28 AM	#30
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Honestly Nathaniel, none of those really look similar to me other than that they are wooden sheaths with metal bands. Those materials are used all over SEA. I was hoping to see something with the same shape and profile of Detlef's example. Flat, wide, slightly wider at the bottom. The closest thing in this thread is in Emanuel's post # 22, the top sheath in the second photo.