Breech loading chamber for a cannon 16th century

Matchlock · 5th December 2013, 04:12 PM

Hi Marcus,

Not that any ball was originally part of a breechloading chamber ...

As I have shown in my thread and demonstrated by photos of a ca. 1480-1500 Late-Gothic chamber dug up still loaded only with powder and a wooden plug, the ball was separately shoved in at the rear of the barrel, at the beginning of the breech recess, before the powder chamber/breech was inserted.

Best,
Michael

Marcus den toom · 5th December 2013, 05:11 PM

Ingineus, did they do this (the wooden plug) to make a solid seal for the chamber which would still be less stressfull than a iron seal? Or?

sorry if you are already told this in the thread, i will read it soon (Dutch holiday is tonight so

)

Matchlock · 5th December 2013, 05:24 PM

I guess the breech plug was mainly there in order to prevent the fine meal powder from falling out, and to preserve it from moisture.

The thread I told about this fact is here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7364

Best,
m

fernando · 5th December 2013, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

I guess the breech plug was mainly there in order to prevent the fine meal powder from falling out, and to preserve it from moisture...

Sure thing, no guess, i would add !
Have i heard that such plugging was also made of wax ?

Matchlock · 5th December 2013, 06:36 PM

Wax?
For sealing interchangeable iron 'patrons' for long guns and hand firearms, possibly ... we have no records of such a surviving piece though.

What we do know for sure, however, is that in early-19th service manuals (by Beroaldo Bianchini et al.), the soldier was ordered to keep the muzzle of his loaded long gun (flintlock musket) closed by either a wooden 'anti-rain' plug (Old German Regenpfropfen) fitted with a lead cover and either cloth or leather side straps (I do keep some 20 original muzzle plugs of 16th to 19th c. date in my collection).
Early-17th c. musketeers on watch used to seal and tighten the closed covers of the primed pans of their matchlock muskets by tallow (Old German Unschlitt) against both moisture and fine priming powder that was literally everywhere on their clothes ...

The huntsman of the muzzle-loading era, on the other hand, used to seal the muzzle of his gun by a hard wax plug - which of course had to be carefully removed before each shot, in order to prevent the barrel from horribly bulging or bursting ...!!!

Best,
Michl

Marcus den toom · 5th December 2013, 08:10 PM

Dudley Pope's Guns has a picture on page 34 with the cannonbal inside the breechblock.
Complete (beeing a powder load plus ball) breechplugs would be more efficient.
Both methods would most likely work fine.

Matchlock · 5th December 2013, 09:08 PM

I am definitely sad for seeing this posted because the drawing is based on mere fantasy and wrong imagination. Dudley Pope alas knew nothing about early pieces ...
The book Guns is still worth buying but only because of the good photos.

Beware of modern drawings, they are highly dangerous and surely need both expert interpretation and authoritative judgement. That's why I strongly plead for mainly relying on photos. There is a lot of rubbish in many books. Books as such are in no way authoritative.

Best,
Michael

5th December 2013, 04:12 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Marcus, Not that any ball was originally part of a breechloading chamber ... As I have shown in my thread and demonstrated by photos of a ca. 1480-1500 Late-Gothic chamber dug up still loaded only with powder and a wooden plug, the ball was separately shoved in at the rear of the barrel, at the beginning of the breech recess, before the powder chamber/breech was inserted. Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 5th December 2013 at 04:31 PM.

5th December 2013, 06:36 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Wax? For sealing interchangeable iron 'patrons' for long guns and hand firearms, possibly ... we have no records of such a surviving piece though. What we do know for sure, however, is that in early-19th service manuals (by Beroaldo Bianchini et al.), the soldier was ordered to keep the muzzle of his loaded long gun (flintlock musket) closed by either a wooden 'anti-rain' plug (Old German Regenpfropfen) fitted with a lead cover and either cloth or leather side straps (I do keep some 20 original muzzle plugs of 16th to 19th c. date in my collection). Early-17th c. musketeers on watch used to seal and tighten the closed covers of the primed pans of their matchlock muskets by tallow (Old German Unschlitt) against both moisture and fine priming powder that was literally everywhere on their clothes ... The huntsman of the muzzle-loading era, on the other hand, used to seal the muzzle of his gun by a hard wax plug - which of course had to be carefully removed before each shot, in order to prevent the barrel from horribly bulging or bursting ...!!! Best, Michl Last edited by Matchlock; 5th December 2013 at 07:08 PM.

5th December 2013, 05:11 PM	#2
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 534	Ingineus, did they do this (the wooden plug) to make a solid seal for the chamber which would still be less stressfull than a iron seal? Or? sorry if you are already told this in the thread, i will read it soon (Dutch holiday is tonight so )

5th December 2013, 05:24 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	I guess the breech plug was mainly there in order to prevent the fine meal powder from falling out, and to preserve it from moisture. The thread I told about this fact is here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7364 Best, m

5th December 2013, 08:10 PM	#6
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 534	Dudley Pope's Guns has a picture on page 34 with the cannonbal inside the breechblock. Complete (beeing a powder load plus ball) breechplugs would be more efficient. Both methods would most likely work fine.

5th December 2013, 09:08 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	I am definitely sad for seeing this posted because the drawing is based on mere fantasy and wrong imagination. Dudley Pope alas knew nothing about early pieces ... The book Guns is still worth buying but only because of the good photos. Beware of modern drawings, they are highly dangerous and surely need both expert interpretation and authoritative judgement. That's why I strongly plead for mainly relying on photos. There is a lot of rubbish in many books. Books as such are in no way authoritative. Best, Michael