Curious stone cannon

[kronckew]

as old as these appear, the 'extra' holes may have been added well after they were no longer used. they are obviously not mounted as they would have been during service, as they are now just propped up on blocks. probably would have had a bit finer surface finish way back then as well. i've seen a sketch of an early breech loader where the breech block was held by a pin thru the centre of the breech with the touch hole forward of the pin hole. the breech block did not contain the charge, just sealed the end. most designs used a wood wedge to tightly force the plug against the breech, and thus has a square section behind the cartridge/breech plug to hold the wedge.

in any case i would likely have preferred being the target than the gunner with that frangible beasty. at least i'd want to be far away when it went off.

only somewhat related, i remember a episode of 'myth busters' where they made a cannon entirely of duck tape that fired an 18 pound ball rather effectively. held up for a few shots if i recall...

[fernando]

Originally Posted by kronckew

... in any case i would likely have preferred being the target than the gunner with that frangible beasty. at least i'd want to be far away when it went off....

Maybe that was the trick; 'abandon' the weapon on the battle field, expecting the enemy to play the smart and fire it back .

[CutlassCollector]

With the extreme thickness of the barrel how would the flame survive the long narrow journey down the touch hole to the charge without going out?
If the touch hole was completely filled with gunpowder would not this be itself an explosive risk due to quantity and the confined space.
Not my area of expertise, although I do enjoy these interesting posts, so forgive me if the question is poor.
CC.

[kronckew]

the powder contains the oxygen required to sustain the burning of the fuse charge, as it is not contained on the open end it burns rather than explodes. stone, being more insulating than bronze or iron/steel would enhance the burning as less heat would be lost to the surroundings. confinement is relative, the larger main charge is bigger than the fuse vent can ventilate, so you get a bang rather than a fizz. as vents wear, in metal cannon at least, they are replaced, drilled out & a new vent screwed in, to avoid loss of propellant gasses. i suspect in a stone cannon the thing would be discarded after the vent wears too big. being ceramic, this is likely still a long life. i'd worry more about it exploding after a limited no. of shots.

p.s. the 'spiking' of cannon so enamoured of authors only temporarily puts a cannon out of action, as the vent is fairly easy to drill out. artillerymen were well aware & usually had tools available. 19c cannon had pre-drilled threaded standardized plugs that could replace a vent in minutes. spiking only gave you enough time to get (hopefully) out of range of your own abandoned cannon before the victors turned them on your retreating selves. abandoning the guns is a shameful disgrace.

one reason the artillery's cannon are their 'colours', like a regiments regimental flag, given by the monarch is defended to the last man and losing your colours (or cannon) to the enemy is a shameful disgrace.

conversely capturing the enemies colours or cannon was the highest act, usually very well rewarded. capturing a french imperial eagle ranked at the top. britain only captured 5 eagles during the Napoleonic wars, 2 of those at waterloo.

[Marcus den toom]

I don't really see the problem with the holes in this cannon.
The breechblock, which is sadly missing, would have had a touch hole. Whih also solves the problem of wear since you just could use a new breechblock.

>1 is behind the actually breech and could never act as a touch hole.
>2 looks to be drilled horizontally or at least at such a shallow slope that it would have emereged at the far end of china before reaching the bore (because once again, the breechblock is missing and can't possibly be connected by drilling a hole at least 20cm in front of the breech).
>3 is the mystery hole i was guessing at. If there is a hole there it would be likely a hole to move this cannon. We don't have measurements, but anyone with a bit of life experience knows that a piece of granit (one of the heaviest of stones) weighs a few "pounds". So logically there should be some way to move the cannon without having a 100 chinees man stampeding against one cannon while the enemy is raining arrows on them. There might have been a lot of chinees in that era as well, but i doubt that they where put to work in such a in effective way.
>Remains hole number 4 which again would come in handy to move a cannon (with a iron bar stuck into it? )

My question is how the breechblock would have been secured? In newer breechloading cannons the breechblock was secured by a bar which was put behind it or just by using wedges which would be pounded behind it.
Pounding near a stone cannon wouldn't be my idea of save working, seeing as a stone cannon is much like a handgrenate and even a small crack in this thing would have caused chinees new year to come earlier than normal (force always seeks the way of lowest resistance).

[CutlassCollector]

I think Marcus may be on the right track. Look at all the lugs on the bronze example. Attachments would have been needed for ropes or bars to locate, aim and absorb recoil on the stone cannon as well.
The breech touch hole makes sense also, instead of having a larger amount of powder which may explode as well as ignite the main charge.

I am sure I have seen pictures of an experimental double firing flintlock somewhere, with two inline locks one in front of the other - hence two in line touch holes - carrying two loads. Really advisable to fire the front one first! Not enough room in this cannon though.

CC

[Matchlock]

Of course it is clear what Marcus has tried to show.

Please see my comprehensive thread on the subject:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...h+loading+1440


In my eyes, none of the hole problem is solved though ...


Best,
m