Greek translation requested

Yannis · 31st October 2005, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobT

Yannis,
the two examples I have seen with that feature have had blades that extended below the hilt thereby forming a barrier to the hand and preventing the hand from sliding up the blade on the thrust.

RobT
I am not sure what you mean. I wish I could see a picture

RobT · 31st October 2005, 02:27 PM

Yannis,
I mean that the blade is wider than the hilt in much the same manner as seen on a choora, pesh kabz, or a Khyber knife. Thus the forefinger bears against the base of the blade when the hilt is gripped. I hope this makes clear what I meant to say. If it doesn't, I will try to make a sketch and post a pdf of it.
Sincerely,
RobT

Rick · 31st October 2005, 03:26 PM

Hi Rob , as regards combat with this knife ; a slash could be accomplished without much danger of the hand sliding forward .
For a stab , the 'icepick grip' with the thumb resting over the butt of the handle between the two bone scales would IMO prevent the hand from sliding up on the blade .

But then again it's a tourist memento and this example is not a serious weapon .

RobT · 31st October 2005, 04:30 PM

Rick,
Given that mine is a tourist blade (although if someone was coming after me with it, I would be a bit concerned), how were the real ones held? You mention the "ice pick" grip as an option to keep the hand from sliding forward. Certainly that would work but wouldn't that type of grip also make a slashing attack all but impossible? Wouldn't the fighter then be forced to either choose between a slash or thrust grip at the time of engagement or switch between the two grips during the action? Thus would not the fighter be faced with the Hobson's choice of limiting his offensive capabilities at the onset of the fight or, in the midst of combat, losing the grip on his weapon? I tend to think a prudent fighter would be loath to do either. Actually, I doubt that switching grip is at all a viable option because, unless the grip was switched during the actual prosecution of an attack (only likely in martial arts films), the change in grip would telegraph the wielder's intent to his opponent. However, if the real knives had a blade that was wider at the base of the blade than the hilt (in say the manner of a choora, pesh kabz or Khyber knife), the hand would then be prevented by the base of the blade from sliding forward. This was how the two T-rib machairi that I saw were constructed and I wonder if this is the salient feature that can be used to distinguish tourist from real.
Sincerely,
RobT

Rick · 31st October 2005, 05:48 PM

I'm not a practitioner of any M.A. Rob , and not to belabor a point ; but not necessarily would the icepick grip preclude 'any' slashing attack (IMO) providing the knife is held with the edge facing the opponent .

IIRC the kanjar is used with this type of grip .

Also IIRC most Puukos and Mora type knives are guardless as well .

Possibly your question about style of fighting with these weapons can be better answered by Yannis , or in a M.A. forum .

Yannis · 31st October 2005, 06:40 PM

As I said I have seen only shepherds to use this kind of knife. So I have no idea how you can hold it in a combat situation.

These shepherds were very fast and I noticed that they were changing the grip a lot of times to flay the goats. I suppose that there are few techniques to hold it without the risk to cut your fingers. But dead goats dont fight back

The T-spine is the oldest type, but we can call authentic also the normal spines as far they have a hand forged and real blade, like the type Tim show us it the other post.

31st October 2005, 02:27 PM	#2
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 536	Clarification...hopefully Yannis, I mean that the blade is wider than the hilt in much the same manner as seen on a choora, pesh kabz, or a Khyber knife. Thus the forefinger bears against the base of the blade when the hilt is gripped. I hope this makes clear what I meant to say. If it doesn't, I will try to make a sketch and post a pdf of it. Sincerely, RobT

31st October 2005, 03:26 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Just a Thought .. Hi Rob , as regards combat with this knife ; a slash could be accomplished without much danger of the hand sliding forward . For a stab , the 'icepick grip' with the thumb resting over the butt of the handle between the two bone scales would IMO prevent the hand from sliding up on the blade . But then again it's a tourist memento and this example is not a serious weapon .

31st October 2005, 04:30 PM	#4
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 536	Switching grip? Rick, Given that mine is a tourist blade (although if someone was coming after me with it, I would be a bit concerned), how were the real ones held? You mention the "ice pick" grip as an option to keep the hand from sliding forward. Certainly that would work but wouldn't that type of grip also make a slashing attack all but impossible? Wouldn't the fighter then be forced to either choose between a slash or thrust grip at the time of engagement or switch between the two grips during the action? Thus would not the fighter be faced with the Hobson's choice of limiting his offensive capabilities at the onset of the fight or, in the midst of combat, losing the grip on his weapon? I tend to think a prudent fighter would be loath to do either. Actually, I doubt that switching grip is at all a viable option because, unless the grip was switched during the actual prosecution of an attack (only likely in martial arts films), the change in grip would telegraph the wielder's intent to his opponent. However, if the real knives had a blade that was wider at the base of the blade than the hilt (in say the manner of a choora, pesh kabz or Khyber knife), the hand would then be prevented by the base of the blade from sliding forward. This was how the two T-rib machairi that I saw were constructed and I wonder if this is the salient feature that can be used to distinguish tourist from real. Sincerely, RobT Last edited by RobT; 31st October 2005 at 04:38 PM. Reason: typo

31st October 2005, 05:48 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I'm not a practitioner of any M.A. Rob , and not to belabor a point ; but not necessarily would the icepick grip preclude 'any' slashing attack (IMO) providing the knife is held with the edge facing the opponent . IIRC the kanjar is used with this type of grip . Also IIRC most Puukos and Mora type knives are guardless as well . Possibly your question about style of fighting with these weapons can be better answered by Yannis , or in a M.A. forum .

31st October 2005, 06:40 PM	#6
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	As I said I have seen only shepherds to use this kind of knife. So I have no idea how you can hold it in a combat situation. These shepherds were very fast and I noticed that they were changing the grip a lot of times to flay the goats. I suppose that there are few techniques to hold it without the risk to cut your fingers. But dead goats dont fight back The T-spine is the oldest type, but we can call authentic also the normal spines as far they have a hand forged and real blade, like the type Tim show us it the other post.