New Maguindanao Kris Form

[Battara]

Thus I will try to make a second baka-baka to match the other with metal strips going up the sides. However, I may just leave the top ring alone since it is very tight and I am afraid of breaking it.

[Robert]

Jose, I can easily see the shadow of where the second baka-baka was originally but as to the cut marks in the swassa, they seem too random and I really do not see a pattern or anything else that would indicate that there was another ring (now missing) on the hilt. I hope that you will share photos of the process involved in the making of the new baka-baka and securing strips as well as the finished product.

Best,
Robert

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

Thus I will try to make a second baka-baka to match the other with metal strips going up the sides. However, I may just leave the top ring alone since it is very tight and I am afraid of braking it.

José, i know how much you enjoy fiddling with these things, but if this really is or even has a strong possibility of being the historically important kris that we have been talking about here are you SURE you want to make changes to it like that?

[Robert]

After re-reading my earlier post I want to make it clear that I am only in favor of replacing parts such as the baka-baka and its retaining straps that have evidence that clearly show it was an original part of the hilt that it is now missing. As to the securing straps that run on the outside of the hilt, (like the ones shown on the other kris) unless there is evidence to show proof positive that these parts were originally on this hilt it is MHO that they should not be added.

Robert

[Horsa]

Battara,

Fantastic cleaning job on the Kris. Its a stunning improvement - however it does leave me pondering where the line can be drawn between enhancing antique metal and going too far.

Im under the impression its not recommended to remove the patina of an antique weapon.

Clearly you know what you are doing here.

Always antique weapons are purchased in a less than perfect state.

Where does one draw the line?


Horsa

[David]

Originally Posted by Horsa

Battara,
Fantastic cleaning job on the Kris. Its a stunning improvement - however it does leave me pondering where the line can be drawn between enhancing antique metal and going too far.

Im under the impression its not recommended to remove the patina of an antique weapon. Horsa

In regards to "enhancing antique metal", IMHO tarnish is not the same as patina. Precious metals such as silver and gold (suassa) are meant to shine. Even when i watch the Antique Roadshow they suggest that silver items are meant to be kept in polish. I think José has done a crackerjack job bringing this old weapon up to snuff.
However, were i personally draw the line is at adding on pieces that we assume might have once been there, especially when we are unsure. Firstly we need to ask ourselves if we are really capable of doing the job so that it doesn't look like modern add-on work. Will the materials and craftsmanship perfectly match? I have rarely seen modified antique weapons done by anybody were their modern modifications aren't immediately obvious as such. Secondly there is the history of the piece which i feel should be preserved at all costs. Many kris have just a single baka-baka, perhaps more than have two. I am not clear whether this is simply a matter of taste or style or what. Now IF this is actually the same weapon as the one pictured with Datu Piang then it did indeed seem to have had two baka-baka at one time. But we have no evidence of how or why one of those baka-baka were removed. Was it lost, broken or removed by choice of style? How do we in the modern age then decide if it belongs there or not? IMHO José, the kris looks fine as it is. If it had NO baka-baka at all i could see at least some reason to add one in order to secure the hilt properly, but given the current condition of piece i just wouldn't mess with the history of it. If it truly is Datu Piang's keris that history should be preserved, not enhanced.

[Battara]

I will consider these arguments.

[Spunjer]

ok, a little update:

in a recent conversation i have with Amai Mingka's (Datu Piang) granddaughter, i mentioned this kris. according to the story that was passed on to her by her grandma, Datu Piang has a personal panday in Dulawan (incidentally, that town is now known as Datu Piang). whenever he has a particular weapon made, whether it be kris, spears, etc., he would commission this panday to make multiple copies, and he would give these pieces to foreign dignitaries who visited him and had given him gifts. now, this would make sense why this piece and the one on the historical picture is so similar...
in a way, this change the common perception in which each individual kris was made to one specific person.
sooo, there's a strong possibility that your piece might be "as is", batara. a similar handle was made, an extra blade lying around, personal panday of Datu Piang put it together, then BAM! instant replica of his favorite sword...