Italian flintlock pistol

[Matus]

Hello,

I would like to introduce here an Italian flintlock pistol. Overall length is 45 cm. Lock type "alla Romana". Rootwood stock with brass furniture, with rich decorations. Wooden ramrod with iron tip.
Barrel is signed "...RINO * COMINAZZO *". According to "Brescian Firearms", it could be No.70 (p.258), used from 1650 to 1700: * LAZARINO * COMINAZZO *.
I would date the pistol to the mid of 18th century, based on the brass furniture style and execution.

Looking forward to your comments and suggestions!

Matus

[Matus]

more pictures

[Marcus den toom]

Hi Matus, a very nice pistol indeed.

The Cominazzo name is a very respected one, Der neue Stockel dedicates 3 full pages of names at this family. Like most good Italian families the cominazzo also had a lot of members.

What troubles me when looking at your pistol, is that it does not bear the carasteristtics of a cominazzo pistol. The barrel is not typical (see picture) and also the decorations seem a bit unorthodox.
The name Cominazzo is also spelled wrong with appears to be a K?

I fear this is a period fraud example, like many others i have enountered. Hopefully i am wrong.

[hbhansen]

Originally Posted by Matus

more pictures

It sure is a beautiful pistol !!

But isn't the spelling on the barrel wrong ? I see a "K" instead of a "C" in
cominazzo....

Best
HB

[hbhansen]

Sorry, didn't read this post well enough

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

Hi Matus, a very nice pistol indeed.

The Cominazzo name is a very respected one, Der neue Stockel dedicates 3 full pages of names at this family. Like most good Italian families the cominazzo also had a lot of members.

What troubles me when looking at your pistol, is that it does not bear the carasteristtics of a cominazzo pistol. The barrel is not typical (see picture) and also the decorations seem a bit unorthodox.
The name Cominazzo is also spelled wrong with appears to be a K?

I fear this is a period fraud example, like many others i have enountered. Hopefully i am wrong.

[Matus]

Hi,

honestly, I haven't noticed it... The lock caught always my full attention. I agree then to the period fraud. How would you date it?

Regards,
Matus

[fernando]

Hi Matus,
It wasn't such an uncommon procedure to 'baptize' guns and swords with the names of famous masters of the period. This doesn't mean that the baptized piece is necessarily of worse quality; only that the unknown smiths tried to reach an added value with such behaviour.
Your pistol looks excelent and the date you suggested (XVIII century) may well be the correct one.
... All just an opinion; other members will have a more accurate diagnosis.

[Marcus den toom]

This is indeed a very nice and good quality pistol, so the value should still be "priceless"

Only the screws holding the lock in place look a bit strange, other than that, this is a very neat pistol, worthy of a good collection.

As far as the Cominazzo part, as stated in my earlier post.. i doubt it to be of the family itself, but nevertheless as Fernando points out, this is stil a good quality pistol.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ Lazarino Kominazzo was a great 17thC. master gun maker... see http://transantique.com/articles/view/id/365/ for a short rendition by Catoire de Bionkur ..

All quite puzzling since they both appear to be the same person and when you realize that between 1600 and 1635 it was quite common for signatures to be forged. In fact the master gun making house of Cominazzo hardly did any complete weapons but focused on gun barrels thus it is hardly surprising that in putting together a weapon from bought in Cominazzo parts that the signature was copied...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ Here I have extracted the relevant detail from a web source http://transantique.com/articles/view/id/365/ on the subject of Lazarino Kominazzo ~ it was a fairly badly engineered translation and I hope I have polished it up a little.

Catoire de Bonkur After his father withdrew from life as a rather successful merchant Catoire inherited his massive fortune. He also tried to carry on business, however, he was not interested in the fathers business, and he soon completely departed from it. The fatherly inheritance substantially stimulated Bionkur's interest in collecting where originally he collected ancient engravings and rare books.

He soon became fascinated in the art of weapons collecting. For two decades Bionkur brought together one of the largest private weapon collections in the territory of Russia. Especially valuable there were ancient target guns and fowling pieces. Documentary certificates on the first acquisitions of the weapon of Catoire de Bionkur are lost, however, thanks to the correspondence now researched, and by reverse engineering the exhibits by checking through various auctioneering logs and notes it has been possible to pinpoint many of the acquisitions.

Bionkur had excellent relations with many known collectors and dealers in antiques. He spent a lot of time in Europe where he familiarized with the antiquarian weapon market and came into contacts to known weapon firms. The faultless knowledge of an environment and wide friendly relations with antiquaries helped Catoire de Bionkur to replenish the collection by choosing unique samples of the weapons.

In 1903 in a Paris auction Bionkur acquired fourteen first-class guns and 3 guns created in France, Italy and Spain. Total amount of his purchases exceeded four thousand francs. Among the rarities acquired by the collector, there was a unique silicon gun created by the Madrid master in 1731, and also an Italian gun of the middle of the seventeenth century with the wheel lock, made by the famous master Lazarino Kominazzo. Bionkur was the frequenter of weapon shops across all Europe. He recorded in the smallest details all the information on the exhibits which he would later hand to the museum for cataloguing.

Catoire de Bionkura's life, the known collector and the patron, ended absolutely suddenly in Paris. All exhibits of his collection in 1913 were transferred to a museum for scientific and public use.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

... see http://transantique.com/articles/view/id/365/ for a short rendition by Catoire de Bionkur ...

I only see a link to a commercial shop & auction site, Ibrahiim; no article on Cominazzo
... Wrong link ?

[Fernando K]

Hello:

Just to make a point: chiseled work of masks in the deck (plate) and the flange (bridge) the trigger (trigger) and sun on the rake (frizeen) is mediocre if not bad. Same for the figure holding the lower jaw. The sheet of spring blades is far greater perfection.

As for the link uploaded by Ibrahim is a commercial product, and assertions are interested ....

Affectionately. Fernando K

[Matus]

I think no one disputes it's not a masterpiece :-) Anyhow, the brass furniture is quite interesting. I read somewhere (don't remember where exactly) that the Roman lock was widely used in central Italy during the 18th century although the quality of the works was quite rough. I think it fits very well to this piece.
I found a similar pistol at Christie's (sale 6345, lot 99).

Regards,
Matus

[Fernando K]

Hello:

Of course, just wanted to mention that the quality of the key (lock) does not correspond to the works of Cominazzo ....

Affectionately. Fernando K

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by fernando

I only see a link to a commercial shop & auction site, Ibrahiim; no article on Cominazzo
... Wrong link ?

Salaams fernando~ It seems there was some commercial side to that site I mentioned but as you see on opening the page there is but one focus...that of the famous collector and one reference only to the master I was searching for; Lazario Kominazzo with a K.

I searched a good deal of the entire web for this reference and as it was the only one ..I went with that . It led me to several interesting pieces of information not least that his weapons appear to have not been necessarily complete as his speciality seems to have been in barrels so it is not surprising to find superb barrels mounted with all kinds of lesser quality parts.

I am, perhaps, not so convinced that there was such an artisan since it was common for signatures to be put on by other craftsmen and they often deliberately, it seems, made a misspelling. I therefor tend toward the Cominazzo family of gun makers unless anyone can show that there really was a different master?

An interesting thread all the same... and I much enjoyed adding my two baizas worth.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

The first one in giving fame to the family was Angelo Lazarino, who was signing himself “Lazari Cominaz“ whom was active between the last years of the 16th. century and the first decades of the 1600's. His son Lazaro, who signed himself “Lazarino Cominazo“, but also “Lazaro Lazarino Cominazo”, is the author of the barrels of the beautiful couple of pistols here uploaded. Up to 1700 the Cominazzo built almost exclusively barrels, renowned in the whole world for their resistance. Still the couple of 'terzette' here uploaded, considering its top quality and of the lack of other signatures, makes us think that the work of Lazaro Lazarino should not have been circumscribed to the wonderful barrels alone. The common identification of their products was “Canes Lazzarine” (Lazarine barrels), after the ancestor’s the name.
Some members of the family moved elsewhere and the last ones were still working, although without most of the ancient fame and ability, at the end of the 1800's. The fame of the "lazzarine" barrels was such, especially abroad, that they were counterfeited by smiths from all parts of Europe and marked with inscriptions very close to the original, sometimes absolutely equal. Considering all counterfeits and the several signatures of the components of the family, is not always easy to distinguish the authentic barrels. Still those considered authentic are the ones with a fileted top or those with more elements. Another characteristic that makes us incline to the authenticity is the presence, at the beginning and in the end the signature, of a kind of three lobed asterisk.

.

[Matchlock]

This Mediterranean lock type is called miquelet to be exact!

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

This Mediterranean lock type is called miquelet to be exact!

Best,
Michael

Not this variation, i'm afraid, Michl
To put it simple, when the main spring acts in front (toe) of the cock and not in the back (heel), is called A La Romana.

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by fernando

Not this variation, i'm afraid, Michl
To put it simple, when the main spring acts in front (toe) of the cock and not in the back (heel), is called A La Romana.

Oh, I see -

Thanks so much, 'Nando, my dearest friend,
and sorry for troubling you and others as well.

Of course you are right!
I guess I should have either reread the respective passages in Arne Hoff's Feuerwaffen and/or Hayward's The Art of the Gunmaker before firing from the hip - or, even better, stuck to my core competence: 14th to 17th c. Northern European firearms.

Please do forgive an old and hasty 'gunfighter' who was just tryin' to put things straight - and sorta got himself in pullin' his plow iron too quickly ...

On the other hand: I've just caught myself breeding over my third beer - maybe that accounts for me hitting the target!


Best wishes for a good and peaceful night to everybody, especially to those who are not quite so lucky as we can be on this very evening.

And please let me express just how proud and glad I feel to be a continuous part of this forum (sometimes not as continual as I wish to ..), and how grateful I am for you keeping me hanging on!


Michl

[Pukka Bundook]

I don't really think the pistol in the original post here is of any great age.
All the metalwork looks quite new, "Sharp" even, and has none of the slightly worn appearance seen on arms of the 18th century and earlier.
It appears whoever made it was unfamiliar with construction methods of the 17th/18th century, and wasn't much of a hand at inletting.


Very best wishes,
Richard.

[Miqueleter]

All, if you have access to Art, Arms and Armour '79, page 340, you will see Marchesan (central Italy) romanlocks and pistols not unlike the subject pistol. May not be much help, but it is the place I looked first when I saw the subject pistol lock.

[Matus]

Hi,

@Miqueleter - could you please post a scan/photo of that page?

I found another similar example in a Czech book, but I have to make a better scan first.

@Richard - holding the pistol in hands I have no doubts it's 18th century. I can compare to other pieces in my collection.

@Michael - it's an honour to have you in my thread. Welcome back!!!

Regards,
Matus

[Miqueleter]

Matus, here you go. Not a very good scan. but it will have to do.

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by Matus

Hi,

@Miqueleter - could you please post a scan/photo of that page?

I found another similar example in a Czech book, but I have to make a better scan first.

@Richard - holding the pistol in hands I have no doubts it's 18th century. I can compare to other pieces in my collection.

@Michael - it's an honour to have you in my thread. Welcome back!!!

Regards,
Matus

Thank you such much, Matus,

I just felt I had to go and make an input, though miquelets are not exactly my field of specification.


Thank God we now have Miqueleter caring for the suject - nomen est omen!


Best,
Michael

[Miqueleter]

Michael, I am very pleased by your confidence in my "miqueletology", however, I am a late arrival on this forum as the Fernandos cover/have covered the miquelet matters in a timely and superb manner. I butt in only when I can offer something not already said or shown. Still, I am honored to be of help to anyone when the situation arises.

[Matchlock]

Hi Miqueleter,

Superbly put - I like it a lot and am sure that your authority will easily suffice to teach us here on your special subject!

Best,
Michael

[Matus]

Hi Miqueleter, all,

many thanks for the scan!

And here is the promised scan/photo from the Czech book "Sbirka pistoli a revolveru" (Collection of pistols and revolvers).
The author dates it to the end of 17th century, Central Italy. Total length is 37 cm.

Regards,
Matus

[Pieje]

I recently found this Lazarino Cominazzo flintlock pistol.
The wood under the barrel is in bad shape, but overall it's a decent 17th century example I think.
"Pietro Paolo Pantigir" was probably the name of the owner.

[Fernando K]

hello

It is not common, but there are some weapons that have their barrel of a known arnero, it has been recycled and put in a stock and lock from another source. Example A barrel of a gun used in whellock spark.

This seems to me, in my humble opinion, that is the case. The name on the plate is not the keeper, but the manufacturer.

Affectionately. Fernando K

[Pieje]

If it was the name of the manufacturer, I would have to find something in google, which I don't. That's why I thought it would be someone else instead of the manufacturer.