New Maguindanao Kris Form

[Spunjer]

now moving on to the part i mentioned yesterday. clearly we're talking two different things. first of all you mentioned that you have not seen this type of kris before, hence me posting those pictures just above this post to show a handle that is similar type. now granted the example for comparison i've given is not gold, filigreed, chased, solid etc. but rather it's made out of ivory, but the point is, the overall design is similar: blunt front and blunt back

Originally Posted by Battara

Just to be clear, the gold band that you circled is in fact both solid, chased, and filigreed - all the above. Also the section circled is also made of 2 parts, both solid. The large section of yellow gold is cast and chased, welded to the swassa. The other part is a band of yellow gold that is cast, chased, and filigreed, not welded but held in place with by wrapped silver wire.

Now as far as the sarimanok is concerned, I will study this further.

now, going back to the part i encircled yesterday...
i can clearly see how your piece is made out of, jose. it's excellently ornated, but that's not what i'm saying. what i've done on the pictures provided is draw a line around the part i'm trying to describe. notice on both ivory pieces, the wing-like appendage is solid, not stylized. on your piece it's rather stylized, in ukkil fashion i might add, to the point they're feather like.

your piece solved the mystery of Datu Piang's kris, my friend. i've always wondered what's up with all those lines and wiggles. now we know it's a very blinged out pommel!!!

[CharlesS]

Spunjer,

Interesting comments all around. I think normally we look at blunted ivory pommels as potentially damaged. Perhaps we should be more careful in our examination.

Had I seen the one with a silver sleeve with no further explanation, I would instantly have assumed the hilt was more Malay than from the Philippines. That silver sleeve looks Malay through and though to me. Of course the blade would have to have something to do with it and it appears to have a Moro style cloth tassel. Is the okir work there exclusively Moro?

[Spunjer]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Spunjer,


Had I seen the one with a silver sleeve with no further explanation, I would instantly have assumed the hilt was more Malay than from the Philippines. That silver sleeve looks Malay through and though to me. Of course the blade would have to have something to do with it and it appears to have a Moro style cloth tassel. Is the okir work there exclusively Moro?

charles, the kris in question is moro. here's a link to a full body shot:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...miniature+kris

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

charles, the kris in question is moro. here's a link to a full body shot:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...miniature+kris

No doubt Spunjer, it's definitely Moro. Once I saw the whole thing I remember we have looked at that one together.

Sorry to have temporarily strayed from the initial thread topic.

[Battara]

Thanks Spunger, now I understand to what you are referring.

Also like you I finally understand the decor on Datu Piang's kris.

On the sarimanok, I finally see how you are seeing it last night.





Maurice, although they are 2 different sets of cultures, they are cousins and may share similar symbolic traits.

[CCUAL]

Not as ornate as yours but here's another style.

[Spunjer]

Originally Posted by Battara

Thanks Spunger, now I understand to what you are referring.

Also like you I finally understand the decor on Datu Piang's kris.

On the sarimanok, I finally see how you are seeing it last night.

no, thank YOU, for posting this wonderful kris jose. it really help us solved the mystery of Datu Piang's kris. it's just too cool that you got the twin piece. can't wait to see this in real life, bro! not to mention how this particular piece really strengthened the sarimanok connection

[ThePepperSkull]

What can I say other than I am speechless? What a great find, and I'm so glad it went to someone who posts here, as I wouldn't have learned about the abbreviated/blunt sarimanok pommel being a consistently executed form.

I have one with a similar form pommel (albeit wood) as well, and once i find pictures I'll post them on the thread to contribute.

Again, great find, Jose. I wish I'd bid more on it when it was up, but I'm glad it went to you.

EDIT: What would the chances be that this actually is Datu Piang's Kris? I'm thinking that since he died prior to WWII, he could have passed it on to a relative who may have had to replace the scabbard at some point. Are there any other shots of Piang and his Kris we can use for reference to see just how similar the hilts are?

[CCUAL]

and another.

[CCUAL]

photos for comparison. Piang's top ring spacing between those ukil is a bit shorter and missing a few details compare to Jose's.

If I am not mistaken, your kris has an internal asang-asang stirrup which was probably coiled in the tang of your kris? Datu Piang has an external clamp stirrup, you can clearly see the stirrup's ins and outs from those handle rings.

[Dimasalang]

Unbelievable piece!!!
Selos.

[Battara]

Robert, thank you for the type of comparison you made in pictures. It helps - yes uncanny similarity.

Dimasalang, I understand......

[Robert]

Jose, do the bands show any wear where (if this originally had the two outside straps) they might have made contact? Also does the band closest to the end of the hilt have gaps where the straps would have gone underneath it like shown in the photo above?

Robert

[Spunjer]

some more photoshopping...