H4ow to count Luk???

[rasdan]

Yes Alan, I am asking about the actual number of luk. I just thought that it is possible for a non-Hindu keris maker to use a Hindu way of counting/making the luk. But still of course that does not explain the last luk ending towards the wadidang phenomena. Anyhow, thank you Alan for you insight.

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, I do think that it is valid to collect things, including keris, just for the sake of collecting. The urge to collect things that give us pleasure seems to be universal. Thus its probably unfair to refer to anybody as "just" a collector.

Similarly I do not believe that it is necessary to become a "keris believer" in order to appreciate many of the qualities of the keris.

However, I do most definitely believe that for anybody who wishes to understand the keris, and keris culture, it is absolutely necessary to understand, or at least try to understand the belief system that is incorporated into keris culture:- we need to understand what the Believers believe, we do not need to become one.

I'd like to make an analogy.

Let us say, just for argument's sake, that I am a devout Buddhist.

During my childhood I had contact with a kindly Catholic priest who had come to my village to provide medical aid. Because of this contact, very early in my life I gained an interest in the paraphernalia of the Faith that I saw this priest using, most particularly was I attracted to his crucifix.

As I grew older I began to buy any crucifix that I might happen to stumble upon, and by the time I was an adult I had a very considerable collection of crucifixes. I did not understand exactly what was so important to Catholics about these little crosses, but looking at them and handling them gave me pleasure. Not only did I not understand the importance of the crucifix to those who were adherents to the Christian Faith, I had not the vaguest idea of any of the beliefs of this Faith.

But I did like my crucifixes.

There is a lot more to this story:- went to live in the city, I began to attend church services, gained an understanding of the Christian Faith, I furthered my education, went to university and after years of study I gained a doctorate in comparative religion. Eventually I truly understood what my crucifixes were all about. In fact, I understood my crucifixes very much better than most people who practiced the Christian Faith.

I did not become a Christian, I remained a Buddhist.

But I did understand Christianity, and I did understand exactly what a crucifix meant within that Faith.

My understanding had the effect of intensifying my pleasure in my collection of crucifixes.

[ariel]

I just re-read the topic. Took me only 2 years to get back to it.

Alan, your last post had a truly beautiful example of the dichotomy between knowledge ( science, learning, understanding etc. ) and a true belief, between the rational and the spiritual. Perhaps, the best I have ever heard.
Thank you.

[A. G. Maisey]

I thank you Ariel, for your compliment.