Slightly unusual Barung

VANDOO · 17th September 2013, 01:59 AM

A INTERESTING BARONG WITH SEVERAL UNUSUAL FEATURES. DO ANY OF THE FEATURES HELP YOU PIN IT DOWN AS TO LOCATION AND TIME PERIOD? THE CARVING IS DIFFERENT AND I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE NAGA PATTERN YOU SPEAK OF. THE CENTER DESIGN AT THE THROAT LOOKS LIKE A LYRE (ANCIENT MUSICAL INSTURMENT) TO ME. THE FERULE BEING 5 OR 8 SIDED IS UNUSUAL AS WELL. NICE ONE

David · 17th September 2013, 03:13 AM

Ron, do you think that the hilt is original to the blade? You also mention the "matching" scabbard. In the photos at least the wood of the hilt looks darker than the scabbard and i can't even tell if it is the same type of wood. I also don't see any motif from the scabbard that is repeated on the hilt so i don't quite see the "matching" thing. Frankly the hilt looks a little bit like someone outside the culture trying to mimic what they have seen on traditional barung hilts...or it could just be an oddball old hilt...

ThePepperSkull · 17th September 2013, 05:15 AM

Beautiful, Ron!

Octagonal Moro hilts are something you don't often encounter outside of Pira, which is what first came to mind when I saw this.

CharlesS · 17th September 2013, 12:16 PM

Ron,

You already know I think this is a gorgeous piece of superb quality. I am a particularly big fan of the blade. Having seen it I feel very strongly that the scabbard and blade were "born together" as they are a perfect fit and look to match age-wise.

I cannot explain the rarity or reason for the unique nature of the octagonal Moro pieces, but we know they do exist, and the few examples seen seem to be of outstanding quality. Please see the pics below of a Moro spear with octagonal fittings discussed here some time ago.

David · 17th September 2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Having seen it I feel very strongly that the scabbard and blade were "born together" as they are a perfect fit and look to match age-wise.

Thanks for that confirmation Charles. Sometime photos don't quite make things so clear.
Nice spear BTW. :-)

Spunjer · 17th September 2013, 02:55 PM

from time to time, we see these oddball weapons that bucked the conventional style. octagonal shaped handles does pop up every now and then. the relatively common octagonal hilts usually have a horse hoof pattern on the end.
David, three different types of wood were used on this piece. a darker type was used for the handle; meanwhile, the scabbard has a light and dark side (see pic below).
as far as whether the barung was "born with" the scabbard:
one way to check whether the barung was born with the scabbard was to dismantle the scabbard itself. every now and then the rattan bind are missing, so this is easily done. once it's dismantle, you can lay the blade on the notch carved out for it, and since each blade is unique, it should have that "Cinderella shoes" fit to it, meaning a perfect match. in this particular piece, the binds look original to the piece, so i won't go into that, rather i placed the blade on the scabbard just to show the clearance from the sides and tip. very, very tight. hope this helps...
vandoo, the "lyre" image is the representation of the naga head in ukkil motif. notice the similarity on this barung from artzi's website. as far as location/date: Sulu. date is harder to pinpoint due to lack of provenance, but i would conservatively place it around mid 19th c...

David · 17th September 2013, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

as far as whether the barung was "born with" the scabbard:
one way to check whether the barung was born with the scabbard was to dismantle the scabbard itself. every now and then the rattan bind are missing, so this is easily done. once it's dismantle, you can lay the blade on the notch carved out for it, and since each blade is unique, it should have that "Cinderella shoes" fit to it, meaning a perfect match. in this particular piece, the binds look original to the piece, so i won't go into that, rather i placed the blade on the scabbard just to show the clearance from the sides and tip. very, very tight. hope this helps...

Well, what that might prove is that the scabbard was made specifically for the blade, but it doesn't prove it was "born with" it. I am not saying it was not, mind you, merely pointing out that your method is no guarantee that the sheath was made at the same time as the blade. Regardless, it is a nice and unusual piece.

Spunjer · 17th September 2013, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well, what that might prove is that the scabbard was made specifically for the blade, but it doesn't prove it was "born with" it. I am not saying it was not, mind you, merely pointing out that your method is no guarantee that the sheath was made at the same time as the blade. Regardless, it is a nice and unusual piece.

true, true... i think i'm jumping the gun on this.

you mentioned similar motif on handle/scabbard. that is one method. most likely same craftsman for both pieces. in this case, i believe different craftsmen were involved in making the scabbard and handle, so technically not born with since it wasn't made by the same person, but made within the same time frame.

17th September 2013, 03:13 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	Ron, do you think that the hilt is original to the blade? You also mention the "matching" scabbard. In the photos at least the wood of the hilt looks darker than the scabbard and i can't even tell if it is the same type of wood. I also don't see any motif from the scabbard that is repeated on the hilt so i don't quite see the "matching" thing. Frankly the hilt looks a little bit like someone outside the culture trying to mimic what they have seen on traditional barung hilts...or it could just be an oddball old hilt... Last edited by David; 17th September 2013 at 04:22 AM.

17th September 2013, 12:16 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Ron, You already know I think this is a gorgeous piece of superb quality. I am a particularly big fan of the blade. Having seen it I feel very strongly that the scabbard and blade were "born together" as they are a perfect fit and look to match age-wise. I cannot explain the rarity or reason for the unique nature of the octagonal Moro pieces, but we know they do exist, and the few examples seen seem to be of outstanding quality. Please see the pics below of a Moro spear with octagonal fittings discussed here some time ago. Attached Images

17th September 2013, 02:55 PM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	from time to time, we see these oddball weapons that bucked the conventional style. octagonal shaped handles does pop up every now and then. the relatively common octagonal hilts usually have a horse hoof pattern on the end. David, three different types of wood were used on this piece. a darker type was used for the handle; meanwhile, the scabbard has a light and dark side (see pic below). as far as whether the barung was "born with" the scabbard: one way to check whether the barung was born with the scabbard was to dismantle the scabbard itself. every now and then the rattan bind are missing, so this is easily done. once it's dismantle, you can lay the blade on the notch carved out for it, and since each blade is unique, it should have that "Cinderella shoes" fit to it, meaning a perfect match. in this particular piece, the binds look original to the piece, so i won't go into that, rather i placed the blade on the scabbard just to show the clearance from the sides and tip. very, very tight. hope this helps... vandoo, the "lyre" image is the representation of the naga head in ukkil motif. notice the similarity on this barung from artzi's website. as far as location/date: Sulu. date is harder to pinpoint due to lack of provenance, but i would conservatively place it around mid 19th c... Attached Images

17th September 2013, 01:59 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A INTERESTING BARONG WITH SEVERAL UNUSUAL FEATURES. DO ANY OF THE FEATURES HELP YOU PIN IT DOWN AS TO LOCATION AND TIME PERIOD? THE CARVING IS DIFFERENT AND I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE NAGA PATTERN YOU SPEAK OF. THE CENTER DESIGN AT THE THROAT LOOKS LIKE A LYRE (ANCIENT MUSICAL INSTURMENT) TO ME. THE FERULE BEING 5 OR 8 SIDED IS UNUSUAL AS WELL. NICE ONE

17th September 2013, 05:15 AM	#3
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Beautiful, Ron! Octagonal Moro hilts are something you don't often encounter outside of Pira, which is what first came to mind when I saw this.