Cannon balls

[fernando]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... Among other interesting tidbits- many of the Spanish and Portuguese guns of the 16th century had extremely crooked bores, resulting in them being prone to explode in battle ...

Oh Mark, let me be skeptical about that theory ... at least on what touches Portuguese artillery, the dame i can defend. From what i read and hear, the unanimous opinion is that their cannons were extremely advanced and a major ( if not the major) reason for their success.
There ought to be a context for that assumption .

[fernando]

Stone balls pictured last week at the Navy Museum situated in Torre Del Oro, Seville, Spain.
Amazingly these things could often be rather assymetrical.
I have seen much worse, by the way.

.

[M ELEY]

Sorry, Fernando. I reread the article and it was a Spanish vessel, the El Gran Grifon, that wrecked off Stroms Hellier, Scotland, in 1588. The vast majority of the guns from that wreck (and, according to the article, the time period), the guns had been bored very poorly, with many that would have exploded if they had been used. They were bronze guns from Lisbon and were a small batch, apparently an experimental program to speed up production and cut costs. The chief gunfounder was an Italian named Bartolome de Somorriva, who came under serious criticism. In the years to come, the problem was addressed, but for this particular wrecked ship, the inspectors had looked the other way on her poor guns. Ironically, it was bad weather and a reef that claimed the ship, not a battle.

[fernando]

So El Gran Grifon wrecked when returning from the Gravelines battle. She belonged to the Invincible Armada fleet … some call it convoy, once the Spanish idea was not battling on sea but invade Britain with a powerful army; only 22 were war galleons, the rest 108 being merchant ships full of infantry for the assault.
Noteworthy is that, by the time these events occurred (1588), Portugal glorious days, on what touches naval might, were starting to weaken; the Filipes from Spain had taken control of the country on 1580 (till 1640) .
One of the first things the Spaniards did after taking over, a classic move, was to demilitarize Portugal, namely dismantling some arsenals, and taking command of others. It is written that 1000 cannons of the finest gunnery were remitted to Spain, as also several ships, which ended up being used to strenghten the said Invincible Armada. The personnel embarked in those ships were Portuguese, although the command was Spanish.
Naturally during this period, operational problems arose, as Portuguese (like any other would) did not feel comfortable working and fighting under foreign command.
So under the pressure put by Spanish to organize for extra gunnery production on an urgent basis and under unwilling ambience in the Portuguese foundries, aggravated by lack of qualified supervision, i wouldn’t be surprised that fresh material coming out of the foundries was eventually “second choice”.
Adding to this problematic, Somorriva was a notorious untrustworthy gun-founder.
I would then consider such bunches of crooked guns as a punctual war episode and not a standard procedure.
… As obviously i would admit any scholar would turn my story upside down but, as you know, one must say something to defend his club .

[M ELEY]

Excellent information, Fernando, and very well researched. I had forgotten to mention that the cannons in question were from Somorriva's foundries. You certainly know your cannons! I think you 'defended your club' well, my friend. I wasn't trying to imply that Spanish or Portuguese technology was defective at the time, merely that the constraints of war plus certain policies interfered with the normally exceptional process of cannon making. I need to read up on the Gravelines battles.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... I need to read up on the Gravelines battles...

May i save you some time?

Indeed a part of this research was done for the subject in discussion. A nice work on artillery connected with the episode may be read
HERE
... despite the ommission of certain pages

The usual wikepedia article, concerning the battle, may be read
HERE

The portuguese version, for my surprise with a varied text, may be read
HERE

Very important for the desmistification of the battle, a portuguese view may be read
HERE

I assume the last two links constitute a problem for english speaking readers but, who knows, a good willing Portuguese friend in the neighbourhood will translate it for you, in case of interest .

Other details i took from a couple books in my micro library.
In short ...
According to the majority of historians, the Portuguese war vessels were the the Spanish Kingdom great expectation of success for their invasion of Britain. In fact, the Comander in chief of the fleet selected a Portuguese Galeon, São Martinho, for his flag ship. Nine of these twelve ships together with four galeasses from the Kingdom of Naples were the most powerful vessels in the fleet. Most of the remaining ships were normaly used for transport, having been equiped with artillery transferred from inland fortresses or smaller ships.
As already mentioned, the Spanish strategists were so confident that they would invade Britain with a relative facility, that they overlooked vital parts that were to be dealt on sea. In fact, the whole campaign was a disaster.

[M ELEY]

Thanks for the great links, Fernando. Of course I now remember this famous battle, as portrayed in the movie 'Elizabeth'. Drake's fireship attack was deadly, but the chief destroyer of the Spanish Armada was the horrid weather. That stretch of ocean around Scotland and Ireland has been claiming ships for centuries. It would seem that the main reasons England and Japan were never successfully invaded was because of none other than the angry seas. This respect for the tides is very apparent in Japanese mythology and legend.