17th century armada chest with 9 bolts

fernando · 28th August 2013, 01:17 PM

"Caixas de açucar" are a totally different culture; not the safe coffer sense but a transportation means. These cases were active from the XV to the XIX centuries, and their name comes from their use to transport sugar from the colonies. Soon their dimensions were 'standardized' and they also became sugar measure units of multiple sizes, the larger ones reaching large proportions (15 arrobas or arratels x 15 Kilos = 225 Kilos). They were made of various fine woods which, during the XVII century, were 'recycled' by cabinetmakers to make fashionable furniture, the so called "mobília caixa de açucar".

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Marcus den toom · 28th August 2013, 05:28 PM

@ Dimitri,

I almost forgot your question about the Nova Zembla movie and the subs in English. This site might be of help..
http://www.podnapisi.net/nova-zembla...itles-p1543882

The film itself is unkown to me, i did hear about it but never watched it. Most Dutch movies aren't ehhh well... very good

But seeing as this is the only one covering this amazing subject, it will do just fine.

I bought my Strong box at an Auction in the area of cambridge in Great Brittain. It might have a similair story as the box in the museum, but there is no documentation and the auctionhouse won't tell me who the previous owner was.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th August 2013, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

"Caixas de açucar" are a totally different culture; not the safe coffer sense but a transportation means. These cases were active from the XV to the XIX centuries, and their name comes from their use to transport sugar from the colonies. Soon their dimensions were 'standardized' and they also became sugar measure units of multiple sizes, the larger ones reaching large proportions (15 arrobas or arratels x 15 Kilos = 225 Kilos). They were made of various fine woods which, during the XVII century, were 'recycled' by cabinetmakers to make fashionable furniture, the so called "mobília caixa de açucar".

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Salaams ~ When the Portuguese were finally eased out of Muscat in 1650... they left behind a lot of heavy furniture in the shape of chests which as you rightly point out were the huge heavy sugar boxes which were used for all sorts of purposes ...storing silver and spices as well as sugar... Some ended up on the Fort gun lines at Muscat and Sohar whilst others were carted inland to the Jebel Akhdar region etc... I used to own about 100 such artefacts and was amazed on only finding about 6 in the Museums in Portugal. Some had 2, 3 or 5 drawers in them and occasionally a chest of drawers would turn up ...i.e. all drawers.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

M ELEY · 28th August 2013, 07:36 PM

On the television show 'Pawn Stars', there was an original one of these iron chests that was given an auction value of above $10 grand, I believe, but it was a big chest.

On another episode of that same program, a man brought in one made of wood with the intricate locks and key-holes, etc. It turned out to be from India and, although not a 'treasure box', it was used for storing valuables and keeping away thieves, much like your piece, Ibrahiim. It would appear that one pattern influenced another, hey? In any case, these chests were certainly found in castles, keeps, ship's holds (well-founded research) and very probably monasteries as well as merchant's storefronts. All of the examples displayed are envious items in a collection. Wish I had one. Marcus, if you know where one is for that price, buy it for me and I'll pay you back!!

If it's legitimate, I think the auction estimate will be much lower than what it actually sells for.

Marcus den toom · 28th August 2013, 07:53 PM

This one is up for sale right now, it is signed and has a date on it 1753.
The dimensions are 55.4cm wide, 29cm high, 34.5cm deep
so it is a bit smaller than mine and about 100+ years younger.

M ELEY · 29th August 2013, 05:31 AM

Wow! That's a nice piece that would clean up very well! Too bad I am dead broke right now! Just picked up a nice navigational tool called a graphometer that set me back. Seeing your chest and this one though makes me want to make a Christmas list!!

Dmitry · 29th August 2013, 01:28 PM

I thought graphometer was a land-surveying tool. How would you use it in navigation?

fernando · 29th August 2013, 04:19 PM

Also used aboard to measure by angle the position of objects on sea or points in land. Not exactly for navigation ... but (also) a naval utensile

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28th August 2013, 01:17 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	"Caixas de açucar" are a totally different culture; not the safe coffer sense but a transportation means. These cases were active from the XV to the XIX centuries, and their name comes from their use to transport sugar from the colonies. Soon their dimensions were 'standardized' and they also became sugar measure units of multiple sizes, the larger ones reaching large proportions (15 arrobas or arratels x 15 Kilos = 225 Kilos). They were made of various fine woods which, during the XVII century, were 'recycled' by cabinetmakers to make fashionable furniture, the so called "mobília caixa de açucar". . Attached Images

28th August 2013, 05:28 PM	#2
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 534	@ Dimitri, I almost forgot your question about the Nova Zembla movie and the subs in English. This site might be of help.. http://www.podnapisi.net/nova-zembla...itles-p1543882 The film itself is unkown to me, i did hear about it but never watched it. Most Dutch movies aren't ehhh well... very good But seeing as this is the only one covering this amazing subject, it will do just fine. I bought my Strong box at an Auction in the area of cambridge in Great Brittain. It might have a similair story as the box in the museum, but there is no documentation and the auctionhouse won't tell me who the previous owner was.

28th August 2013, 07:36 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	On the television show 'Pawn Stars', there was an original one of these iron chests that was given an auction value of above $10 grand, I believe, but it was a big chest. On another episode of that same program, a man brought in one made of wood with the intricate locks and key-holes, etc. It turned out to be from India and, although not a 'treasure box', it was used for storing valuables and keeping away thieves, much like your piece, Ibrahiim. It would appear that one pattern influenced another, hey? In any case, these chests were certainly found in castles, keeps, ship's holds (well-founded research) and very probably monasteries as well as merchant's storefronts. All of the examples displayed are envious items in a collection. Wish I had one. Marcus, if you know where one is for that price, buy it for me and I'll pay you back!! If it's legitimate, I think the auction estimate will be much lower than what it actually sells for.

28th August 2013, 07:53 PM	#5
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 534	This one is up for sale right now, it is signed and has a date on it 1753. The dimensions are 55.4cm wide, 29cm high, 34.5cm deep so it is a bit smaller than mine and about 100+ years younger.

29th August 2013, 05:31 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Wow! That's a nice piece that would clean up very well! Too bad I am dead broke right now! Just picked up a nice navigational tool called a graphometer that set me back. Seeing your chest and this one though makes me want to make a Christmas list!!

29th August 2013, 01:28 PM	#7
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I thought graphometer was a land-surveying tool. How would you use it in navigation?

29th August 2013, 04:19 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Also used aboard to measure by angle the position of objects on sea or points in land. Not exactly for navigation ... but (also) a naval utensile .