Antique blade... roman, celtic, iliria?

[Rivkin]

I am not a specialist in ancient weapons, but in my opinion it can be nearly from everywhere, actual type seems to me a little bit Central Asian, for example: Gorelik XII-73 (Central Asia 1000b.c.-0 a.d.), VIII-35 (Altai 1000b.c.-0 a.d.).

If you want I can post the scans of above cited pages, however one should bear in mind that Gorelik does not adress post 0 a.d. and specifically roman weapons and daggers (and I don't have any books on roman daggers), and since all the cultures used somewhat similar knifes and daggers, it is quite possible that by 300 a.d. this type migrated into Europe.

[Miyamoto]

Thank you Rivkin! I'll be gratefull if you post some pictures.

As a matter of fact, it might be slavic origin, from some Slavic migration, wich took place in the 6th and 7th centur. They migrated from The Caucasian area.

It would be great discovering that! The early slavic blades are verry rare (more than cltic/roman).

[ariel]

Not my area at all, but ... It looks too good and intact for a 7th century iron sword. I would expect more rust, less even edges and no what I think are clearly visible and demarkated areas looking like grindstone marks.
Overall, this looks like a oversize beer bottle opener

[TVV]

Originally Posted by ariel

Not my area at all, but ... It looks too good and intact for a 7th century iron sword. I would expect more rust, less even edges and no what I think are clearly visible and demarkated areas looking like grindstone marks.
Overall, this looks like a oversize beer bottle opener

I completely agree: the pitting is comparable to that of a poorlly maintained late 19th century bayonet or sword, for example. And the brass on ancient pieces tends to be well patinated and green in appearance, while the alloy on this one exhibits no patination whatsoever. Unfortunately recently while browsing eBay I cannot help but notice the enormous amount of "ancient" weapons: mahairas, "Byzantine", "Celtic" and "Roman" daggers and swords, all coming from a few sellers who appear to have endless supplies of them and all with the vague "found in the Balkans" description. Determining the authenticity of ancient artefacts is a very hard task, and even museum curators get fooled often. Miyamoto, did you obtain this piece from a treaure hunter/archeologist near the spot of its supposed origin, or did you acquire it second- ot third-hand through the internet? While the answer to this question will not prove anything, it may point you to the right direction.

[Miyamoto]

Hi and thanks for your opinions!

However, I'm avsolutely certain, that the dagger is at least 1000 years old. It looks antique manufacture and it evens smells like one. Also the color of the material used ( i think of a misture of bronze and iron not visibile on my poor photos) is verry antique looking. As I said I've bought it from a local "treasre hunter" (I live only 30 km away from Castorum at Frigidum) and beeing an aquitance of mine, I'll exclude that he lied to me. He even showed me the place where he exavated it.

Your points are verry clear and understandable.I can understand your thoughts, I also thought that my friend was trying to fool me around a little.
However you have to know that beeing verry unexperienced in the field, he had cleaned the dagger up extensively, immediately after he had found it. That would explain thoose file marks and no substantial pitting on the surface. Lower pitting is also atributed to the fact that in antique times the place where the dagger was found was wasteland. So if it were initially in burried the mood, not a lot of oxygen would be near the blade for a tousand of years. In the middle ages there were a mass population growth and they had dried up those terrain. In fact the dagger was found 1.5 meters deep underground in a strate of solid and compressed black terrain. I had a to say a big when I've took a look at that hole!

Another thing. If you take a look at the third (side view) photo, you'd see a a small piece wich was not touched, look right in between the two gold pieces attached. It is hardly to see it cos the photo is a little blurry but I can assure you that it is a 1.5mm strait of green patina.

I've aquired quite a lot of stuff, toghether with that dagger, all roman stuff (evena a wolf - Lupa Romana), but it was found more than 300 meter away from the site of that dagger, so I cannot atribuite for certain to the romans. There was a lot more more of that fibulas.

Ariel: It would be fine to see a found someday an skeleton of an ancient Slavic Staresina, haveing his bottle of beer quietly

[Miyamoto]

Originally Posted by TVV

Unfortunately recently while browsing eBay I cannot help but notice the enormous amount of "ancient" weapons: mahairas, "Byzantine", "Celtic" and "Roman" daggers and swords, all coming from a few sellers who appear to have endless supplies of them and all with the vague "found in the Balkans" description. Determining the authenticity of ancient artefacts is a very hard task, and even museum curators get fooled often.

I completely agree. I've spotted them either. But you from my point of view a lot of them are originals. Why? Thoose greek mahairas are found in the Macedonia in verry large quantities,. They are all verry bad condition, however. Macedonia is full of greek graves and there are areas wich are not researched yet. I know that 'cos a friend lives there. Why anbody had put a gladius for sale? If thoose are reprdoctions, why they are not reproducing roman 5000$ worth Gladiuses instead of mahairas for 30$?

[TVV]

Well, if have bought it first hand from the treasure-hunetrs, then there is no reason for concern. However, I still doubt the huge number of mahairas on eBay. There are thousands of Thracian burial sites in Bulgaria alone, and in Bulgarian museums the mahairas are not too many. Actually, they are probably less than the ones currently on eBay. And while one can doubt the mahairas (which when you think about it are extremely easy to fake), I certainly do not doubt the so-called Byzantine daggers, which are all late 19th, early 20th century village knives.
As far as Slavic weapons, this is a great topic. In Bulgaria, only one or two swords have been found and catalogued, and even those two are not certain to be Slavic, since they can also be Bulgarian, Byzantine, Avar or even Varyag. In a Czech book about early medieval Slavic artefacts I was once able to look at, there were a few swords, which were very similar in structure and hilt decoration to early Viking swords, which is not surprising as swordsmith centers in Western Europe were situated along the Rhein. Your piece does not seem at all like them, while with its ring hilt it has a very far resemblance to some central Asian pieces: maybe it was brought to the Western Balkans by the Huns. But this is an area I have very little knowledge in and so would stop speculating.
Regards,
Teodor

[Miyamoto]

Originally Posted by TVV

And while one can doubt the mahairas (which when you think about it are extremely easy to fake), I certainly do not doubt the so-called Byzantine daggers, which are all late 19th, early 20th century village knives.

Yes, I've spotted them to Some of them even retains the original macedonian dried mood on them