Origin of this keris .

DAHenkel · 26th June 2013, 04:15 PM

Agree this is a Gayo keris with a Malay jawa demam hilt. Semi-sort of agree with Alan in that often kerises were changed, modified, upgraded, downgraded due to historical circumstances...however, unless those circumstances are known I don't feel there is any need to preserve the keris in its current state. It is not an historic or provenanced piece, nor is it particularly unusual. Were I the owner of this piece I would definitely seek an appropriate hilt and pendokok for the piece. An amalgamation is an amalgamation but an historically and culturally correct amalgamation is better than nothing

A. G. Maisey · 27th June 2013, 12:57 AM

Not just historical circumstances Dave, but sociological circumstances.

People in restricted circumstances very often lack both financial and cultural resources which allow them to conform to the greater cultural dictates, thus they do the best they can with what they can get.

In the case of keris this can result in some pretty strange combinations, but combinations that do represent the time and the place where they occurred.

There may not be a perceived need at the present time to retain these keris in the form in which they came into our hands, and it is possible that a strong argument could be mounted to put these mix & match keris into culturally mainstream form. However if I reflect upon those keris that I myself have done this with, I do feel that I might have been better advised to keep the keris as I got it and to record the provenance.

Perhaps at the present time this is something for each of us to consider and make his own decisions.

asomotif · 27th June 2013, 11:59 AM

In this case the seller specifically stated that he was given this keris when he was living in Malaysia as part of a datu ceremony.
So based on that I would suggest to keep the keris as it is.

On the other hand, the journey of this keris just continues. be it now in the hands of a collector.
The new owner might want to change the keris with what ever is beforehand or within his budget. Same as previous owners did.

I would probably keep the hilt, as it is a nice hilt and try to add a matching selut/pendokok.

Best regards,
Willem

danny1976 · 27th June 2013, 06:07 PM

Intresting " discusion "

I,m in beween the camps i.m not sure yet what i wil do , ofcourse i wil clean the blade to prevend against further corrosion and in time i wil find à fitting pendokok .

I,m aware of the fact that the hilt is Malasian but when i look at the patin and the state of the keris how it is now , i can say everything is togheter like this for à long time .
The same with the ivory buntut , à replacement or ment to be ...?

For now i wil leave it as it is .
There is also this paper with the info , of course it says nothing but it did came with the keris .

26th June 2013, 04:15 PM	#1
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Agree this is a Gayo keris with a Malay jawa demam hilt. Semi-sort of agree with Alan in that often kerises were changed, modified, upgraded, downgraded due to historical circumstances...however, unless those circumstances are known I don't feel there is any need to preserve the keris in its current state. It is not an historic or provenanced piece, nor is it particularly unusual. Were I the owner of this piece I would definitely seek an appropriate hilt and pendokok for the piece. An amalgamation is an amalgamation but an historically and culturally correct amalgamation is better than nothing

27th June 2013, 12:57 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Not just historical circumstances Dave, but sociological circumstances. People in restricted circumstances very often lack both financial and cultural resources which allow them to conform to the greater cultural dictates, thus they do the best they can with what they can get. In the case of keris this can result in some pretty strange combinations, but combinations that do represent the time and the place where they occurred. There may not be a perceived need at the present time to retain these keris in the form in which they came into our hands, and it is possible that a strong argument could be mounted to put these mix & match keris into culturally mainstream form. However if I reflect upon those keris that I myself have done this with, I do feel that I might have been better advised to keep the keris as I got it and to record the provenance. Perhaps at the present time this is something for each of us to consider and make his own decisions.

27th June 2013, 11:59 AM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	In this case the seller specifically stated that he was given this keris when he was living in Malaysia as part of a datu ceremony. So based on that I would suggest to keep the keris as it is. On the other hand, the journey of this keris just continues. be it now in the hands of a collector. The new owner might want to change the keris with what ever is beforehand or within his budget. Same as previous owners did. I would probably keep the hilt, as it is a nice hilt and try to add a matching selut/pendokok. Best regards, Willem

27th June 2013, 06:07 PM	#4
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Intresting " discusion " I,m in beween the camps i.m not sure yet what i wil do , ofcourse i wil clean the blade to prevend against further corrosion and in time i wil find à fitting pendokok . I,m aware of the fact that the hilt is Malasian but when i look at the patin and the state of the keris how it is now , i can say everything is togheter like this for à long time . The same with the ivory buntut , à replacement or ment to be ...? For now i wil leave it as it is . There is also this paper with the info , of course it says nothing but it did came with the keris .