Recent takoubas for sharing

Jim McDougall · 31st May 2013, 02:07 AM

Absolutely perfectly presented case Iain!! and I am inclined to concede on your position for the blades being potentially schiavona 'types' which seem to have Solingen origins. The cross and orb and wolf being on reverse and obverse sides of blade across these distinct central ellipse type fullers indeed are seen on schiavona with these blades as you have shown.

I must admit that even on the European examples shown, these figures seem oddly placed as if being applied in observation of older tradition. It would seem that they might have been applied in trade entrepots coming out of Solingen? In this case whether the blades were to end up in Italian markets or Meditteranean toward North Africa, the marks would have been found both in schiavona as well as North African markets, Red Sea or Arabian routes.

I feel that Briggs, despite the well known value of his work, was a bit optimistic in suggesting 16th century on these blades, but certainly later 17th and well through 18th is evidenced with these schiavona shown.

Quite frankly I need to refamiliarize with the varying blade forms seen on both takouba and kaskara which seem to be 1) extant blades from earlier European import, 2) blades imported from mid to latter 19th c. through colonial trade 3) native made blades using imported sheet steel and stock from railroad and automotive , as well as various tools and implements.

I had completely forgotten the adabal, or sheet steel blocks sandwiched on forte, in the case of the takouba I thought had a block forte. Clearly the stamped marks must have been applied by native artisan.

Discussion is discussion regardless of agreement or not, and this is outstanding as I enjoy learning. Iain, your tenacity and detailed research into comprehensively understanding all aspects of these tribal cultures has added fantastic dimension to these weapons.

All the very best,
Jim

Iain · 3rd June 2013, 03:09 PM

I wanted to add a few detail photos of the leatherwork on sword #1 in the hopes someone will recognize the style and technique.

I have made little progress myself although I feel the scabbard would point away from Tuareg, Fulani or Hausa attributions.

All help appreciated.

Iain

3rd June 2013, 03:09 PM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	I wanted to add a few detail photos of the leatherwork on sword #1 in the hopes someone will recognize the style and technique. I have made little progress myself although I feel the scabbard would point away from Tuareg, Fulani or Hausa attributions. All help appreciated. Iain Attached Images

31st May 2013, 02:07 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Absolutely perfectly presented case Iain!! and I am inclined to concede on your position for the blades being potentially schiavona 'types' which seem to have Solingen origins. The cross and orb and wolf being on reverse and obverse sides of blade across these distinct central ellipse type fullers indeed are seen on schiavona with these blades as you have shown. I must admit that even on the European examples shown, these figures seem oddly placed as if being applied in observation of older tradition. It would seem that they might have been applied in trade entrepots coming out of Solingen? In this case whether the blades were to end up in Italian markets or Meditteranean toward North Africa, the marks would have been found both in schiavona as well as North African markets, Red Sea or Arabian routes. I feel that Briggs, despite the well known value of his work, was a bit optimistic in suggesting 16th century on these blades, but certainly later 17th and well through 18th is evidenced with these schiavona shown. Quite frankly I need to refamiliarize with the varying blade forms seen on both takouba and kaskara which seem to be 1) extant blades from earlier European import, 2) blades imported from mid to latter 19th c. through colonial trade 3) native made blades using imported sheet steel and stock from railroad and automotive , as well as various tools and implements. I had completely forgotten the adabal, or sheet steel blocks sandwiched on forte, in the case of the takouba I thought had a block forte. Clearly the stamped marks must have been applied by native artisan. Discussion is discussion regardless of agreement or not, and this is outstanding as I enjoy learning. Iain, your tenacity and detailed research into comprehensively understanding all aspects of these tribal cultures has added fantastic dimension to these weapons. All the very best, Jim