Iraq Dagger

Aurangzeb · 13th October 2005, 10:47 PM

Hello All!

I was looking through some of the old Ebay links I saved into my computer and found one for a recurving shabriya with the same trianguler pommel and small metal ring like on mine, unfortunetly I forgot the link r elese I whould have posted it and with well over a hundred Ebay saves in my computer finding it wilkl be great amounts of trouble. Now that it is a shabriya that at least puts it on a continent and geograpical region, now to pin it to a country. Any guesses?

Mark...

Justin · 14th October 2005, 01:01 AM

Cant help with pinning it to a country but,I have also seen the triangular pommel and the little pommel ring on shibriyas before,and yes they did use brass on them.I have a small and fairly new one that is covered{sheath and hilt} with sheet brass,not brass scales like this one though.....

Aurangzeb · 17th October 2005, 10:52 PM

Perhaps it is from Jordan.

Aurangzeb · 30th October 2005, 10:30 PM

I guess this daggers origen will remain a mystery?

The use of brass and 'X' shapes still seems african. Perhaps Mali, a dagger made by locals in imatation of the arab jambiya/shbariya. HELP!

Hal Siegel · 31st October 2005, 03:02 AM

Howdy folks, and thanks, Mark - I'm glad you like the dagger even though it's giving you headaches!

Here's a picture of the dagger in question:

My original (and current) estimation is northern African somewhere ... the Berber guesstimate was Tom Hyle's thoughts on the origin.

I don't think it's a shabriya variation, the blade shape is really quite jambaic, and even the most extremely curved of the sabriya (nice collection!) doesn't really come close to being the same.

As to Iraq and Marsh Arab - also, I think not. Their hilts are sort of triangularish as shown in Mark's new whatsit, but the Marsh daggers really have a more dart/arrowhead shape to them rather than the clearly defined triangle.

Here's a Marsh dagger shown along with a modern stainless-steel bladed repro:

The blade curve/shape of the Marsh jambiya is quite similar to the blade on Mark's Mystery, but I think the pommel shape rules out Iraq in specific - although now that I look at all of these pictures together I'm certainly willing to narrow down my estimation of "nothern Africa" to eastern northern Africa (ish!)

Aurangzeb · 31st October 2005, 04:14 AM

I think in the end it will be a glorious accomplishment to pin it ot a country.

In my opinion the fact it has a crude feel to it as opposed to other nort african daggers which seem refined, and seems to be a crude imatation of arab jambiya's with some saharan-african influences like in Mali or Mauritania. One of the reasons I say Mali is the fact that Mali had strong arab ties during it's history but seems to use brass on a lot of there weapons.

Mark...

Aurangzeb · 31st October 2005, 10:05 PM

Heres a link I foumd. Look at the dagger from mali half way down the page the desighns on the hilt are idententical, three lines then a "X".

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=west+africa

Mark...

13th October 2005, 10:47 PM	#1
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	!Brake Though! Hello All! I was looking through some of the old Ebay links I saved into my computer and found one for a recurving shabriya with the same trianguler pommel and small metal ring like on mine, unfortunetly I forgot the link r elese I whould have posted it and with well over a hundred Ebay saves in my computer finding it wilkl be great amounts of trouble. Now that it is a shabriya that at least puts it on a continent and geograpical region, now to pin it to a country. Any guesses? Mark...

14th October 2005, 01:01 AM	#2
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 179	Cant help with pinning it to a country but,I have also seen the triangular pommel and the little pommel ring on shibriyas before,and yes they did use brass on them.I have a small and fairly new one that is covered{sheath and hilt} with sheet brass,not brass scales like this one though.....

17th October 2005, 10:52 PM	#3
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Perhaps it is from Jordan.

30th October 2005, 10:30 PM	#4
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	I guess this daggers origen will remain a mystery? The use of brass and 'X' shapes still seems african. Perhaps Mali, a dagger made by locals in imatation of the arab jambiya/shbariya. HELP!

31st October 2005, 03:02 AM	#5
Hal Siegel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 15	Howdy folks, and thanks, Mark - I'm glad you like the dagger even though it's giving you headaches! Here's a picture of the dagger in question: My original (and current) estimation is northern African somewhere ... the Berber guesstimate was Tom Hyle's thoughts on the origin. I don't think it's a shabriya variation, the blade shape is really quite jambaic, and even the most extremely curved of the sabriya (nice collection!) doesn't really come close to being the same. As to Iraq and Marsh Arab - also, I think not. Their hilts are sort of triangularish as shown in Mark's new whatsit, but the Marsh daggers really have a more dart/arrowhead shape to them rather than the clearly defined triangle. Here's a Marsh dagger shown along with a modern stainless-steel bladed repro: The blade curve/shape of the Marsh jambiya is quite similar to the blade on Mark's Mystery, but I think the pommel shape rules out Iraq in specific - although now that I look at all of these pictures together I'm certainly willing to narrow down my estimation of "nothern Africa" to eastern northern Africa (ish!)

31st October 2005, 04:14 AM	#6
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	I think in the end it will be a glorious accomplishment to pin it ot a country. In my opinion the fact it has a crude feel to it as opposed to other nort african daggers which seem refined, and seems to be a crude imatation of arab jambiya's with some saharan-african influences like in Mali or Mauritania. One of the reasons I say Mali is the fact that Mali had strong arab ties during it's history but seems to use brass on a lot of there weapons. Mark...

31st October 2005, 10:05 PM	#7
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Heres a link I foumd. Look at the dagger from mali half way down the page the desighns on the hilt are idententical, three lines then a "X". http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=west+africa Mark...