INDONESIAN KERIS: Aesthetic and Philosophical Meaning

A. G. Maisey · 28th April 2013, 10:57 PM

I did not raise the question with Pauzan, but it would surprise me if it is published in two languages. My present understanding is that it is to be a small book that is concerned primarily with Pauzan's work.

Possibly another Forum member may feel inclined to comment?

kai · 30th April 2013, 08:43 AM

Hello Alan,

Quote:

I did not raise the question with Pauzan, but it would surprise me if it is published in two languages. My present understanding is that it is to be a small book that is concerned primarily with Pauzan's work.

Possibly another Forum member may feel inclined to comment?

Well, I for one would love to obtain an English translation!

If this is going to be one of the few books with important tidbits to be found in the text (rather than pics only), an English version would certainly find a much wider audience and help to spread valuable information on keris Jawa. I'd appreciate very much if you were to suggest this to Bapak Pauzan for his kind consideration, Alan!

Folks, speak up!

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 30th April 2013, 09:01 AM

Kai, I feel it is probably too late to suggest anything. As I understand it, this book is already in production, and Pauzan is not the only person concerned. The gentleman who is behind this publication is a very canny, experienced person who is well aware of interest in keris outside Jawa, and S.E. Asia, and additionally has English as a second language. My guess is that he has already thoroughly assessed the market and would have a good understanding of the bottom line. If he has been able to see a return in publishing in Indonesian and English, we will possibly see some English text, if, after analysis he has seen a decline in his percentile return if he provides English text, then I doubt that we will see any English text.
If I were involved in something like this, as an Indonesian, I very much doubt that I would provide English text, I believe I would find that the increase in sales measured against the cost of providing that text would be insufficient to convince me to get a translation done and fund the additional cost of production.

Jean · 30th April 2013, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

If I were involved in something like this, as an Indonesian, I very much doubt that I would provide English text, I believe I would find that the increase in sales measured against the cost of providing that text would be insufficient to convince me to get a translation done and fund the additional cost of production.

Hello Alan,
If the space allocated to the text is not much as compared to the pictures, the additional cost of the English translation is low as the number of pages of the book will not significantly increase. The book Tafsir Keris from Toni Junus is a good example of such combined text and the fact to provide an international audience to the book is not negligible but it is too late anyway.....
I attach the picture of a blade purchased from Pak Pauzan at his home in 1996 and supposedly made by him.
Best regards

ariel · 30th April 2013, 10:54 PM

I have never been very impressed by "authorities" who pronounce their negative opinions about somebody else's books without even bothering to read them or after only a " quick scanning".

A. G. Maisey · 30th April 2013, 11:48 PM

Ariel, the core of the keris world is really very small. The population of that core is known by name, and in many , if not most cases, by nature to the other members of the core.

I would suggest that a similar situation applies in all areas of discrete knowledge. For example a department head of neurology at Johns Hopkins is unlikely to spend his valuable time on reading a book dealing with neurology that has been authored by a new graduate who is working in a rural hospital. Time has a value, as does money, and to spend either on something that appears to have little worth is close to criminal.

That same dept. head may perhaps read the new graduate's book --- or parts of it --- if a colleague recommends it to him, but it is unlikely that he will spend his own time in the empirical exploration of all published matter in his own discipline.

In my own profession I have an immense amount of reading that needs to be covered, it seems there is a never ending stream of magazine and journal articles that need to be read as well as things that are published on the net. I don't have time to read them all. I am very selective in what I spend my time on. I need to be or I'd never make enough money to feed myself.

I tend to adopt the same principles in my hobby:- I have limited time and limited money, I try to place both wisely.

I am certain that Bapak Suparman, and Bapak Pauzan Pusposukadgo adopted a very similar position. When we consider these two people, we are considering men who are elevated beyond the highest position in their chosen professions. Professors do not spend time reading the compositions of children in grade school.

ariel · 1st May 2013, 02:16 AM

I am in the business of writing and publishing books and peer-reviewed articles. I know most of the people in my field. Let me assure you that GPs from rural hospitals and undergraduate students do not publish books.

There are books that interest me and books that do not. I might skip the latter ones: I also value my time. But we are not talking about providing constructive critique: the issue is the manner of critiquing.

” No, and I have no wish to see it. All these books are written by people who understand next to nothing about the keris and they all repeat one another’s errors.”

“It’s a pity that people don’t learn about keris before they begin to write about them.”

Neither myself nor any respectable specialist in the field I know would utter such snide remarks about a book without even bothering to read it and point out specific reasons for their critique. Most importantly, no one I know and respect would insult the authors. This is spiteful, undignified and self-aggrandizing. If the "authority", who denigrated both the author and the book, is publishing his own on the same subject, one can cast legitimate doubts about his real motives.

In my professional community, people who engage in such behavior, acquire bad reputation and lose a lot of respect, despite being "elevated beyond the highest position in their chosen professions".

Bjorn · 30th April 2013, 09:02 AM

I agree with David that these coffee table-style books offer us an opportunity to see what kinds of kris are out there (and out of our reach, by and large).

They may not provide much information but for beginning collectors, such as myself, there are still some tidbits to be found.

But considering their high price tag I do look for second-hand or otherwise discounted copies.

28th April 2013, 10:57 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I did not raise the question with Pauzan, but it would surprise me if it is published in two languages. My present understanding is that it is to be a small book that is concerned primarily with Pauzan's work. Possibly another Forum member may feel inclined to comment?

30th April 2013, 09:01 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Kai, I feel it is probably too late to suggest anything. As I understand it, this book is already in production, and Pauzan is not the only person concerned. The gentleman who is behind this publication is a very canny, experienced person who is well aware of interest in keris outside Jawa, and S.E. Asia, and additionally has English as a second language. My guess is that he has already thoroughly assessed the market and would have a good understanding of the bottom line. If he has been able to see a return in publishing in Indonesian and English, we will possibly see some English text, if, after analysis he has seen a decline in his percentile return if he provides English text, then I doubt that we will see any English text. If I were involved in something like this, as an Indonesian, I very much doubt that I would provide English text, I believe I would find that the increase in sales measured against the cost of providing that text would be insufficient to convince me to get a translation done and fund the additional cost of production.

30th April 2013, 10:54 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have never been very impressed by "authorities" who pronounce their negative opinions about somebody else's books without even bothering to read them or after only a " quick scanning".

30th April 2013, 11:48 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Ariel, the core of the keris world is really very small. The population of that core is known by name, and in many , if not most cases, by nature to the other members of the core. I would suggest that a similar situation applies in all areas of discrete knowledge. For example a department head of neurology at Johns Hopkins is unlikely to spend his valuable time on reading a book dealing with neurology that has been authored by a new graduate who is working in a rural hospital. Time has a value, as does money, and to spend either on something that appears to have little worth is close to criminal. That same dept. head may perhaps read the new graduate's book --- or parts of it --- if a colleague recommends it to him, but it is unlikely that he will spend his own time in the empirical exploration of all published matter in his own discipline. In my own profession I have an immense amount of reading that needs to be covered, it seems there is a never ending stream of magazine and journal articles that need to be read as well as things that are published on the net. I don't have time to read them all. I am very selective in what I spend my time on. I need to be or I'd never make enough money to feed myself. I tend to adopt the same principles in my hobby:- I have limited time and limited money, I try to place both wisely. I am certain that Bapak Suparman, and Bapak Pauzan Pusposukadgo adopted a very similar position. When we consider these two people, we are considering men who are elevated beyond the highest position in their chosen professions. Professors do not spend time reading the compositions of children in grade school.

1st May 2013, 02:16 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am in the business of writing and publishing books and peer-reviewed articles. I know most of the people in my field. Let me assure you that GPs from rural hospitals and undergraduate students do not publish books. There are books that interest me and books that do not. I might skip the latter ones: I also value my time. But we are not talking about providing constructive critique: the issue is the manner of critiquing. ” No, and I have no wish to see it. All these books are written by people who understand next to nothing about the keris and they all repeat one another’s errors.” “It’s a pity that people don’t learn about keris before they begin to write about them.” Neither myself nor any respectable specialist in the field I know would utter such snide remarks about a book without even bothering to read it and point out specific reasons for their critique. Most importantly, no one I know and respect would insult the authors. This is spiteful, undignified and self-aggrandizing. If the "authority", who denigrated both the author and the book, is publishing his own on the same subject, one can cast legitimate doubts about his real motives. In my professional community, people who engage in such behavior, acquire bad reputation and lose a lot of respect, despite being "elevated beyond the highest position in their chosen professions".

30th April 2013, 09:02 AM	#8
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	I agree with David that these coffee table-style books offer us an opportunity to see what kinds of kris are out there (and out of our reach, by and large). They may not provide much information but for beginning collectors, such as myself, there are still some tidbits to be found. But considering their high price tag I do look for second-hand or otherwise discounted copies.