Books on Indian and regional swords

CharlesS · 25th March 2013, 08:01 PM

Per usual, Jim is right on the money and his suggestions are excellent.

I would only add the 'ole' classic Stone's A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor: in All Countries and in All Times because of its more likely inclusion of the "regional" weapons you may be referring to, for instance from Ceylon(Sri Lanka) or Nepal, or the Coorg or Naga people which fit very much into the realm of Indian weapons, but don't share the same characteristics as those more commonly associated with India.

Blacksmith · 25th March 2013, 09:14 PM

Hi, check this bookstore: D.K. Agencies ( dkagencies.com), located in Delhi. They have all the Pant books about indian arms and armour and also a couple of interesting museum catalogs.
Regards, Timo

Jim McDougall · 25th March 2013, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Per usual, Jim is right on the money and his suggestions are excellent.

I would only add the 'ole' classic Stone's A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor: in All Countries and in All Times because of its more likely inclusion of the "regional" weapons you may be referring to, for instance from Ceylon(Sri Lanka) or Nepal, or the Coorg or Naga people which fit very much into the realm of Indian weapons, but don't share the same characteristics as those more commonly associated with India.

Thanks very much Charles!

Well said on Stone!!! How the heck could I forget the 'cornerstone' of every arms library!

Neil · 26th March 2013, 05:44 AM

Thank you guys for your input. I really appreciate the advice. I have Rawson, Paul, and Stone. They do not appear to have the depth I am looking for though. I will look to the other works mentioned, and continue reading the forum threads to further my studies.
Thanks again,
Neil

CharlesS · 26th March 2013, 12:22 PM

If it's greater depth that you are looking for, Neil, then Elgood's work should certainly satisfy your needs in his area of research.

Neil · 26th March 2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

If it's greater depth that you are looking for, Neil, then Elgood's work should certainly satisfy your needs in his area of research.

Does anyone have thoughts on Elgoods book "Islamic Arms and Armour". I see it was first published in 1979.

CharlesS · 26th March 2013, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Does anyone have thoughts on Elgoods book "Islamic Arms and Armour". I see it was first published in 1979.

It's good, quite rare, and expensive. It is a very well illustrated scholarly work.

Personally, I prefer Hindu Arms and Ritual, perhaps only because I heard his forum lecture regarding the book and its subject some years ago in Baltimore, and it seems a little fresher to me.

Jim McDougall · 26th March 2013, 05:42 PM

Charles that is a spot on assessment of Robert Elgoods "Hindu Arms and Ritual" , and it is indeed 'fresher' because he has taken an approach to 'understanding' these arms rather than simply cataloguing them in arbitrary classifications. As I mentioned, this is far and above that of virtually all writers before him. I believe the reason for this is that other writers in scholarly context have had a certain kind of fear of addressing more subjective aspects of ethnographic weapons.

One of the key figures and early writers in the study of ethnographic arms was Sir Richard Burton ("Book of the Sword" 1885), and is somewhat dismissive on such aspects of ethnographic weapons, noting the efforts of Professor Gustav Oppert ("On the Weapons etc. of the Ancient Hindus", 1880) as rather insufficient. He refers to this perspective as absurdity and that the Hindus attribute everything on weapons to metaphysical and supernatural. I believe this unfortunately narrow minded approach to the study of ethnographic arms in general, not just India, has virtually hamstrung the understanding of them even into modern scholarship..that is until Robert took his innovative stand. His concerns that his book might be too far into such areas has proven quite unfounded, and in my opinion, exactly the perspective in which these arms should be studied.

"Islamic Arms and Armour" (1979) was actually a compendium of papers written by various authors and edited by Robert Elgood. While these are especially useful they are quite esoteric and attend more to general aspects of Islamic arms, with good benchmark and research data for broader research. There is actually little specifically on Indian arms aside from the scientific investigation on decoration in a two page item, interesting but not detailed necessarily in comparison to subsequent material.
For a good overview on metallurgy and some beautifully illustrated Indian tulwars I would get the work by the late Dr. Leo Figiel, "On Damascus Steel" (1991, on Amazon.com).

Thus far in my opinion there has been no effectively accurate classification of tulwar hilts in regional application, but Pant's work does set some valuable precedents and guidelines (research continues).

As has been noted Neil, there have been many significant contributions on these pages over the years, and we would welcome any specific questions greatly. This is exactly what this forum is here for, and specifically posed questions enable us to address the topic accordingly, where the material becomes archived and useful to all including future research.

All the best,
Jim

25th March 2013, 09:14 PM	#2
Blacksmith Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 98	Books on indian swords Hi, check this bookstore: D.K. Agencies ( dkagencies.com), located in Delhi. They have all the Pant books about indian arms and armour and also a couple of interesting museum catalogs. Regards, Timo

25th March 2013, 08:01 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Per usual, Jim is right on the money and his suggestions are excellent. I would only add the 'ole' classic Stone's A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor: in All Countries and in All Times because of its more likely inclusion of the "regional" weapons you may be referring to, for instance from Ceylon(Sri Lanka) or Nepal, or the Coorg or Naga people which fit very much into the realm of Indian weapons, but don't share the same characteristics as those more commonly associated with India.

26th March 2013, 05:44 AM	#4
Neil Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 114	Thank you guys for your input. I really appreciate the advice. I have Rawson, Paul, and Stone. They do not appear to have the depth I am looking for though. I will look to the other works mentioned, and continue reading the forum threads to further my studies. Thanks again, Neil

26th March 2013, 12:22 PM	#5
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	If it's greater depth that you are looking for, Neil, then Elgood's work should certainly satisfy your needs in his area of research.

26th March 2013, 05:42 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,285	Charles that is a spot on assessment of Robert Elgoods "Hindu Arms and Ritual" , and it is indeed 'fresher' because he has taken an approach to 'understanding' these arms rather than simply cataloguing them in arbitrary classifications. As I mentioned, this is far and above that of virtually all writers before him. I believe the reason for this is that other writers in scholarly context have had a certain kind of fear of addressing more subjective aspects of ethnographic weapons. One of the key figures and early writers in the study of ethnographic arms was Sir Richard Burton ("Book of the Sword" 1885), and is somewhat dismissive on such aspects of ethnographic weapons, noting the efforts of Professor Gustav Oppert ("On the Weapons etc. of the Ancient Hindus", 1880) as rather insufficient. He refers to this perspective as absurdity and that the Hindus attribute everything on weapons to metaphysical and supernatural. I believe this unfortunately narrow minded approach to the study of ethnographic arms in general, not just India, has virtually hamstrung the understanding of them even into modern scholarship..that is until Robert took his innovative stand. His concerns that his book might be too far into such areas has proven quite unfounded, and in my opinion, exactly the perspective in which these arms should be studied. "Islamic Arms and Armour" (1979) was actually a compendium of papers written by various authors and edited by Robert Elgood. While these are especially useful they are quite esoteric and attend more to general aspects of Islamic arms, with good benchmark and research data for broader research. There is actually little specifically on Indian arms aside from the scientific investigation on decoration in a two page item, interesting but not detailed necessarily in comparison to subsequent material. For a good overview on metallurgy and some beautifully illustrated Indian tulwars I would get the work by the late Dr. Leo Figiel, "On Damascus Steel" (1991, on Amazon.com). Thus far in my opinion there has been no effectively accurate classification of tulwar hilts in regional application, but Pant's work does set some valuable precedents and guidelines (research continues). As has been noted Neil, there have been many significant contributions on these pages over the years, and we would welcome any specific questions greatly. This is exactly what this forum is here for, and specifically posed questions enable us to address the topic accordingly, where the material becomes archived and useful to all including future research. All the best, Jim