A Nice Pakayun...and questions!

VVV · 8th March 2013, 06:20 AM

Here are some features from mine with a "Shelford-style hilt" as a comparison of motifs on the really old ones.

Michael

paolo · 8th March 2013, 02:20 PM

He CharlesS http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2992 in mine. Sure there are similarities, but the blade (laminated but with a lesser visible pattern) haven't decorations on the spine and on the sides, and the scabbard is less gorgeous. Your one seems to me, as wrote VANDOO, a presentation sword, however really a beauty.
Paolo

VANDOO · 8th March 2013, 06:53 PM

NOW I HAVE SEEN TWO WITH DECORATIVE ENGRAVING AT THE FORTE OF THE BLADE. THIS WOULD MAKE ME THINK SOMEONE WAS MAKEING THESE IN THE SAME AREA AND TIME RANGE. I SUSPECT THEY ARE FEW IN NUMBERS CONSIDERING THE MAJORITY I HAVE SEEN DID NOT HAVE THIS. PERHAPS THIS WAS BECAUSE OF COST OR THEY WERE LIMITED AT THE SOURCE AS PRESENTATION PIECES ONLY TO BE GIVEN ON SPECIAL OCCASIONS TO PEOPLE OF HIGH STATUS. AS TO WHO HAD THEM MADE MURUT OR OUTSIDERS IS HARD TO SAY BUT I PERSONALLY THINK THESE TWO DESIGNS SHOW OUTSIDE INFLUENCE BEYOND BORNEO. JUST A GUT FEELING.

BUT THE SWORDS LOOK TO HAVE BEEN MADE IN BORNEO AND THE DESIGNS ON THE SPINE ARE TRADITIONAL ENOUGH.
DECORATED BLADES ARE NOT TOO UNCOMMON IN BORNEO ON THE MANDAU OR JIMPUL SO WHY NOT ON THE PAKAYUN PERHAPS ONE WITH THE PIERCED BLADE WITH BRASS OR SILVER INSERTS MAY SHOW UP.

AS TOO THE IRON STRAPS ON SCABBARDS THE THICKNESS OF THE STRAPS WAS ABOUT THE SAME AS AN OLD CAN NOT NECESSARLY MADE OF ONE.

VVV A PICTURE OF THE POMMEL ON YOUR EXAMPLE WOULD BE NICE I HAVE ONLY SEEN ONE OR TWO OF THAT SIMULAR FORM.

Maurice · 8th March 2013, 07:43 PM

Just for comparison!
Mine is by far as in mint condition as Charles's pakayun (scabbardtip and scabbardmouth are damaged, carrying belt is missing and ratan is broken at the handle).
The blade also has two fullers and the handle is quite different as usual and has wonderfull patina, which made me kept this one over several other pakayuns I once owned.

Maurice

Spunjer · 8th March 2013, 07:50 PM

so cool how that pakayun turned out, charles! pretty hefty piece, that pakayun is...

VVV · 9th March 2013, 11:13 AM

Barry, I see no reason why a Murut wouldn't have done those blade decorations?
It seems that they show up on older and more elaborate Murut swords.
I don't want to kidnap Charles' thread but the hilt of mine has been discussed at an earlier thread (when it belonged to Ben/Dajak).
In the first posts are more examples of pakayun with fullers.

Michael

T. Koch · 9th March 2013, 11:52 AM

Hi Charles! Congratulations on that most awesome paka! It's great to see it in such a complete state! Yours is of the type with the parallel spine and edge. Personally I prefer the flaring blade type, but in this case I think the fullers and incisions compensate nicely.

I attach below a picture of user Dajak's impressive paka collection, which displays a variety of blades.

The decorations on yours are typically Murut IMO. The squares on the scabbard as well as the four-leaf petals on the spine are very characteristic. In general the Murut decorations seem to be more "cubic" and less organic than the decorations of the Dayak and when motives indeed are of natural form, they display a vegetative type, presumably due to the Islamic influence on the Murut expression?

What I find really strange about this one, is that the textile placed under the point of belt attachment, seem to be of the exact same type as the one on mine, I posted some time ago. -Burgundy with little white flowers, right? Maybe our original owners shopped in the same place?

I am familiar with Dayak's opinion that the hilts started out as being complex and then became simpler due to "more easy to make". As far as we are talking evolution of pre-20th cent. SEA arms in general, I don't agree with him though, but align my thoughts more along those of fx. Kaudern. I'll refrain from OT'ing Charles' thread and save my thoughts on the subject for a separate thread.

Maurice, your paka is fabulous too - I've drooled over it many many times.

I think it's probably my most favorite of all the pakayun hilts I've seen: The swooping leaves between the pegs as well as the well-carved little knobs are fantastic. Not to mention that the well-worn patina of the wood is so chocolate'y-delicious, you could eat it!

Thanks so much for sharing and cheers all, - Thor

8th March 2013, 06:20 AM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Here are some features from mine with a "Shelford-style hilt" as a comparison of motifs on the really old ones. Michael Attached Images

8th March 2013, 07:43 PM	#4
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	Just for comparison! Mine is by far as in mint condition as Charles's pakayun (scabbardtip and scabbardmouth are damaged, carrying belt is missing and ratan is broken at the handle). The blade also has two fullers and the handle is quite different as usual and has wonderfull patina, which made me kept this one over several other pakayuns I once owned. Maurice Attached Images

9th March 2013, 11:52 AM	#7
T. Koch Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Mother North Posts: 189	Hi Charles! Congratulations on that most awesome paka! It's great to see it in such a complete state! Yours is of the type with the parallel spine and edge. Personally I prefer the flaring blade type, but in this case I think the fullers and incisions compensate nicely. I attach below a picture of user Dajak's impressive paka collection, which displays a variety of blades. The decorations on yours are typically Murut IMO. The squares on the scabbard as well as the four-leaf petals on the spine are very characteristic. In general the Murut decorations seem to be more "cubic" and less organic than the decorations of the Dayak and when motives indeed are of natural form, they display a vegetative type, presumably due to the Islamic influence on the Murut expression? What I find really strange about this one, is that the textile placed under the point of belt attachment, seem to be of the exact same type as the one on mine, I posted some time ago. -Burgundy with little white flowers, right? Maybe our original owners shopped in the same place? I am familiar with Dayak's opinion that the hilts started out as being complex and then became simpler due to "more easy to make". As far as we are talking evolution of pre-20th cent. SEA arms in general, I don't agree with him though, but align my thoughts more along those of fx. Kaudern. I'll refrain from OT'ing Charles' thread and save my thoughts on the subject for a separate thread. Maurice, your paka is fabulous too - I've drooled over it many many times. I think it's probably my most favorite of all the pakayun hilts I've seen: The swooping leaves between the pegs as well as the well-carved little knobs are fantastic. Not to mention that the well-worn patina of the wood is so chocolate'y-delicious, you could eat it! Thanks so much for sharing and cheers all, - Thor Attached Images

8th March 2013, 02:20 PM	#2
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	He CharlesS http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2992 in mine. Sure there are similarities, but the blade (laminated but with a lesser visible pattern) haven't decorations on the spine and on the sides, and the scabbard is less gorgeous. Your one seems to me, as wrote VANDOO, a presentation sword, however really a beauty. Paolo

8th March 2013, 06:53 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	NOW I HAVE SEEN TWO WITH DECORATIVE ENGRAVING AT THE FORTE OF THE BLADE. THIS WOULD MAKE ME THINK SOMEONE WAS MAKEING THESE IN THE SAME AREA AND TIME RANGE. I SUSPECT THEY ARE FEW IN NUMBERS CONSIDERING THE MAJORITY I HAVE SEEN DID NOT HAVE THIS. PERHAPS THIS WAS BECAUSE OF COST OR THEY WERE LIMITED AT THE SOURCE AS PRESENTATION PIECES ONLY TO BE GIVEN ON SPECIAL OCCASIONS TO PEOPLE OF HIGH STATUS. AS TO WHO HAD THEM MADE MURUT OR OUTSIDERS IS HARD TO SAY BUT I PERSONALLY THINK THESE TWO DESIGNS SHOW OUTSIDE INFLUENCE BEYOND BORNEO. JUST A GUT FEELING. BUT THE SWORDS LOOK TO HAVE BEEN MADE IN BORNEO AND THE DESIGNS ON THE SPINE ARE TRADITIONAL ENOUGH. DECORATED BLADES ARE NOT TOO UNCOMMON IN BORNEO ON THE MANDAU OR JIMPUL SO WHY NOT ON THE PAKAYUN PERHAPS ONE WITH THE PIERCED BLADE WITH BRASS OR SILVER INSERTS MAY SHOW UP. AS TOO THE IRON STRAPS ON SCABBARDS THE THICKNESS OF THE STRAPS WAS ABOUT THE SAME AS AN OLD CAN NOT NECESSARLY MADE OF ONE. VVV A PICTURE OF THE POMMEL ON YOUR EXAMPLE WOULD BE NICE I HAVE ONLY SEEN ONE OR TWO OF THAT SIMULAR FORM.

8th March 2013, 07:50 PM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	so cool how that pakayun turned out, charles! pretty hefty piece, that pakayun is...

9th March 2013, 11:13 AM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Barry, I see no reason why a Murut wouldn't have done those blade decorations? It seems that they show up on older and more elaborate Murut swords. I don't want to kidnap Charles' thread but the hilt of mine has been discussed at an earlier thread (when it belonged to Ben/Dajak). In the first posts are more examples of pakayun with fullers. Michael