Cambodian ???

Andrew · 1st March 2013, 12:19 PM

It's "Montagnard"--hill tribe. As Stu notes, not necessarily from Cambodia and more likely from further north in Laos, Thailand or Vietnam.

The handle was once much longer. Compare exampes 263-266 here:

http://www.arscives.com/historysteel....swordlist.htm

Robert · 1st March 2013, 03:30 PM

Thank you very much Andrew for identifying this as a Montagnard Daab and for link to the great photos and information. Using the dimensions listed on the link and the known width of the boards under my example I have been able to work out a close estimation of the length of my piece. It looks to be 72 cm in total length with a 46 cm blade and a 26 cm hilt. This is the same blade to hilt ratio as item #264 in the link you provided while the scabbard is a very close match for item 265. Unfortunately the guard on my piece seems to be missing and will have to be replaced. Do you have any suggestions as to where I might be able to find one? I have attached a few new photos of the hilt on my example but until it arrives I will not be able to really get a good idea of if has been shortened at some point in time or not. Also if you look closely at the third new photo it looks as if this might have had wire wrapping next to the collar at some time. Again my thanks to both you and Stu for your help in identifying where this is from and who it was made by.

Best,
Robert

Andrew · 1st March 2013, 07:06 PM

My pleasure, Robert.

#264 is from my collection, and I believe the handle was shortened somewhere along the way. Almost all of this type of sword have very long handles (not all, just most).

In any event, the guard is largely vestigial, and often not much more than a "guitar-pick" or diamond shaped piece of metal. Some have pierced coins as guards. Finding an original guard will be difficult, so you might consider getting something fabricated.

Robert · 1st March 2013, 07:14 PM

Hello Andrew, fabrication is not a problem. Could you by chance post a photo of what a common guard would look like with dimensions ? It would be of great help if you could. The main reason that I am not quite sure that the hilt has been cut down is the odd bent it seems to takes at the very end. Thank you again.

Hello Stu, we must have been posting at the same time. I do not want to change this to try to make it something more than it was originally. If this did not have a guard when it started out it does not need one added now. I just thought that it might have had one originally and wanted to replace it if it did. So now my question is, do you think that this originally had a guard?

Best,
Robert

kahnjar1 · 1st March 2013, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hello Andrew, fabrication is not a problem. Could you by chance post a photo of what a common guard would look like with dimensions ? It would be of great help if you could. The main reason that I am not quite sure that the hilt has been cut down is the odd bent it seems to takes at the very end. Thank you again.

Hello Stu, we must have been posting at the same time. I do not want to change this to try to make it something more than it was originally. If this did not have a guard when it started out it does not need one added now. I just thought that it might have had one originally and wanted to replace it if it did. So now my question is, do you think that this originally had a guard?

Best,
Robert

Hi Robert, I think Andrew is best to answer this, as the item shown in the Catalogue is his, though it certainly looks as if it had a guard. It looks from the pics you have posted that there is a gap between the blade and hilt. I suspect that the blade is probably loose in the handle, and the guard has maybe dropped out, but you will know that when it arrives.
Stu

Andrew · 1st March 2013, 11:12 PM

I think Stu has it absolutely correct--that gap between the handle and blade is where the guard would be.

All examples of this type I have seen and handled (including three currently in my collection) have a guard. I'll post some photos when I get a moment.

Best,
Andrew

kahnjar1 · 1st March 2013, 07:13 PM

Hi Robert,
Doubt you will "find" a guard but one could be made reasonably easily. It is likely to be just a disc, maybe decorated or more likely I think, plain, but maybe with some edge "knurling" of some sort. It really comes down to "how far do you want to go?". Do you leave it as a work knife, or restore to the "dha" format with a new handle?
If the latter is the case then perhaps Andrew or I, can supply a bigger pic from The History of Steel Catalogue,of the item concerned.
Stu

1st March 2013, 07:14 PM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Andrew, fabrication is not a problem. Could you by chance post a photo of what a common guard would look like with dimensions ? It would be of great help if you could. The main reason that I am not quite sure that the hilt has been cut down is the odd bent it seems to takes at the very end. Thank you again. Hello Stu, we must have been posting at the same time. I do not want to change this to try to make it something more than it was originally. If this did not have a guard when it started out it does not need one added now. I just thought that it might have had one originally and wanted to replace it if it did. So now my question is, do you think that this originally had a guard? Best, Robert Last edited by Robert Coleman; 1st March 2013 at 07:24 PM.

1st March 2013, 12:19 PM	#1
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	It's "Montagnard"--hill tribe. As Stu notes, not necessarily from Cambodia and more likely from further north in Laos, Thailand or Vietnam. The handle was once much longer. Compare exampes 263-266 here: http://www.arscives.com/historysteel....swordlist.htm

1st March 2013, 03:30 PM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Thank you very much Andrew for identifying this as a Montagnard Daab and for link to the great photos and information. Using the dimensions listed on the link and the known width of the boards under my example I have been able to work out a close estimation of the length of my piece. It looks to be 72 cm in total length with a 46 cm blade and a 26 cm hilt. This is the same blade to hilt ratio as item #264 in the link you provided while the scabbard is a very close match for item 265. Unfortunately the guard on my piece seems to be missing and will have to be replaced. Do you have any suggestions as to where I might be able to find one? I have attached a few new photos of the hilt on my example but until it arrives I will not be able to really get a good idea of if has been shortened at some point in time or not. Also if you look closely at the third new photo it looks as if this might have had wire wrapping next to the collar at some time. Again my thanks to both you and Stu for your help in identifying where this is from and who it was made by. Best, Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 1st March 2013 at 04:26 PM.

1st March 2013, 07:06 PM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	My pleasure, Robert. #264 is from my collection, and I believe the handle was shortened somewhere along the way. Almost all of this type of sword have very long handles (not all, just most). In any event, the guard is largely vestigial, and often not much more than a "guitar-pick" or diamond shaped piece of metal. Some have pierced coins as guards. Finding an original guard will be difficult, so you might consider getting something fabricated.

1st March 2013, 11:12 PM	#6
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I think Stu has it absolutely correct--that gap between the handle and blade is where the guard would be. All examples of this type I have seen and handled (including three currently in my collection) have a guard. I'll post some photos when I get a moment. Best, Andrew

1st March 2013, 07:13 PM	#7
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	Hi Robert, Doubt you will "find" a guard but one could be made reasonably easily. It is likely to be just a disc, maybe decorated or more likely I think, plain, but maybe with some edge "knurling" of some sort. It really comes down to "how far do you want to go?". Do you leave it as a work knife, or restore to the "dha" format with a new handle? If the latter is the case then perhaps Andrew or I, can supply a bigger pic from The History of Steel Catalogue,of the item concerned. Stu