A group of axes

kronckew · 1st March 2013, 09:28 AM

nice axes. sadly all mine are relatively recently forged.

M ELEY · 1st March 2013, 10:31 AM

Hi, Kronckew. That's a beautiful ax! Damascus looks great. How are you on boarding axes? I'm putting you in the line of fire, I suppose-

CutlassCollector · 1st March 2013, 12:29 PM

Great to see so many axes and thanks Mark for starting the thread, I particularly like your spiked trappers tomahawk.

Possibly Junker or the group can answer a question for me concerning the fire axe the lower one in his picture. I have seen an almost identical one sold at auction as an 18/19th century German boarding axe and I have also seen it pictured as a German trench axe from WW1 on the net. Is it a German government model used across different services? I know these questions are not always easy to answer but it has puzzled me for a while.

CC

CutlassCollector · 1st March 2013, 12:34 PM

Thanks Fernando - I have a machete/sword marked marked ACERO FUNDIDO, GARANTIZADO and now I know what it means. It is made by Esser in Germany I guess for export to Spanish S. America and also has a rearing horse symbol.

CC

kronckew · 1st March 2013, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Hi, Kronckew. That's a beautiful ax! Damascus looks great. How are you on boarding axes? I'm putting you in the line of fire, I suppose-

don't have one yet, tho i've read a lot about them. almost bought a british one that was used on a revenue cutter & with broad arrow & rack number brass plate. sadly was outbid. it was in pristine condition as the cutter had been kept up as a training ship after being decommissioned. i'll get one eventually if i come across it. i do have a descendant tho, british fire axe:

my favourite antique axes:

african axe

fokos

bullova (moustache axe)

just ordered this one today, kinda boarding axe-ish: 127 cm/2.4 kilos

broadaxe · 1st March 2013, 05:02 PM

Just a small correction referring the fokos - technically it is a Polish ciupaga, and a very distinctive one, though it seems rather recent.

kronckew · 1st March 2013, 06:43 PM

yes, it's really a ciupaga, didn't think y'all would know that distinction. from the latter half of last century. the ciupaga has the distinctive shaped head & decorated haft. (my granny was from the area)

(Slovak: valaška, Hungarian: fokos, Polish: depending on region - ciupaga, rabanica, uobuszek, cekanka, Czech: valaška, Romanian: baltag, Ukrainian: бартка, топірець)

so is this one.

this is a proper fokos from budapest, hungary:

the fokos is more utilitarian. this one has a pattern welded head.

the same smith also made the head for the small poll axe in this view: it has an inserted damascus edge. i decided it would be happier as a camp axe/tomahawk rather than a fokos.

and a HC steel fokos/warhammer head i'm currently hafting. i designed it, he made it.

the greenish one has a small bronze axe head, from the balkans.

anyway, also known in english as a 'shepherd's axe'

broadaxe · 1st March 2013, 07:23 PM

I liked the last one (hammer head). Have a bunch of fokos myself. Have you seen the current production "tactical fokos" by United Cutlery? http://www.knivesanddefensedepot.com...nse/UC2905.jpg

M ELEY · 1st March 2013, 08:17 PM

Wow! Glad I resurrected this old thread! I didn't know the difference between ciapaga versus the fokos, the latter of which I'd heard of. I especially like the bullova, an ax used by the Wild Tribes in the Chotta Nagpur region of India. Always thought of getting one for a conversation piece! Thanks for posting the pic of that Brit fire ax. Here, we can see the general pattern of the evolved boarding ax as a fire tool, but with a thinner blade and spike. Appreciate it, gents!

kronckew · 1st March 2013, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadaxe

I liked the last one (hammer head). Have a bunch of fokos myself. Have you seen the current production "tactical fokos" by United Cutlery? http://www.knivesanddefensedepot.com...nse/UC2905.jpg

they also make an anti-zombie 'tactical' spear (in stainless-yuck!). just saw that one tonite on another forum, same 'ninja' guy with the balaclava.

junker · 2nd March 2013, 03:29 PM

Hi, CC,
yes there is some confusion about this form of fire axes.
There are definitve fire axes but in WW 1 they were caried in field also.
I saw an Photo of a soldier who has one of them.
It will be hard to decide if one item was taken to war or not.
I heard that in the early days of trench war the soldiers take what they can get from home (specially knives)
Fireman will maybe take their axes often.
But till today I ve never heard of one with an official acceptance mark but in the Holder maybe

Dirk

M ELEY · 2nd March 2013, 09:32 PM

Hello, Junker. Was hoping you might pop up on this one. So now, apart from all the confusion of what is a boarding ax and what is a fire ax, we can now throw in that early fire implements were carried into war! I would imagine that boarding axes from the early era were used as early fire axes and they might have been put to use in modern warfare as well. Sigh-

.
Goes back to what I deduced earlier. Unless it is the classic boarding pattern with govt markings, it could be a private purchase maritime boarding piece or it could be fire. No clearer answer has come to me in the last decade I've been studying these...

CutlassCollector · 3rd March 2013, 04:28 PM

Hi Dirk, thanks for your answer to my question and yes that explains the pictures on the web of the fire axes being used in WWI. It all makes a lot more sense now - many thanks. I wonder if you have an approximate date of when these axes were first made?
Kronckew - you have some great pieces, many types I had not even heard of - I am thinking that although some may be forged today they may well become classics tomorrow.
I have heard it said that almost all cultures had swords of some description and the same must be true of axes but with many 'outdoor' trades having their own variation from roofer to trapper. And amazing to think that they have been a viable weapon from stoneage flint axe to vietnam hawk.

1st March 2013, 06:43 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,239	yes, it's really a ciupaga, didn't think y'all would know that distinction. from the latter half of last century. the ciupaga has the distinctive shaped head & decorated haft. (my granny was from the area) (Slovak: valaška, Hungarian: fokos, Polish: depending on region - ciupaga, rabanica, uobuszek, cekanka, Czech: valaška, Romanian: baltag, Ukrainian: бартка, топірець) so is this one. this is a proper fokos from budapest, hungary: the fokos is more utilitarian. this one has a pattern welded head. the same smith also made the head for the small poll axe in this view: it has an inserted damascus edge. i decided it would be happier as a camp axe/tomahawk rather than a fokos. and a HC steel fokos/warhammer head i'm currently hafting. i designed it, he made it. the greenish one has a small bronze axe head, from the balkans. anyway, also known in english as a 'shepherd's axe' Last edited by kronckew; 1st March 2013 at 08:00 PM.

2nd March 2013, 03:29 PM	#11
junker Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 140	Fire axe Hi, CC, yes there is some confusion about this form of fire axes. There are definitve fire axes but in WW 1 they were caried in field also. I saw an Photo of a soldier who has one of them. It will be hard to decide if one item was taken to war or not. I heard that in the early days of trench war the soldiers take what they can get from home (specially knives) Fireman will maybe take their axes often. But till today I ve never heard of one with an official acceptance mark but in the Holder maybe Dirk

1st March 2013, 09:28 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,239	nice axes. sadly all mine are relatively recently forged.

1st March 2013, 10:31 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Hi, Kronckew. That's a beautiful ax! Damascus looks great. How are you on boarding axes? I'm putting you in the line of fire, I suppose-

1st March 2013, 12:29 PM	#3
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 366	Great to see so many axes and thanks Mark for starting the thread, I particularly like your spiked trappers tomahawk. Possibly Junker or the group can answer a question for me concerning the fire axe the lower one in his picture. I have seen an almost identical one sold at auction as an 18/19th century German boarding axe and I have also seen it pictured as a German trench axe from WW1 on the net. Is it a German government model used across different services? I know these questions are not always easy to answer but it has puzzled me for a while. CC

1st March 2013, 12:34 PM	#4
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 366	Thanks Fernando - I have a machete/sword marked marked ACERO FUNDIDO, GARANTIZADO and now I know what it means. It is made by Esser in Germany I guess for export to Spanish S. America and also has a rearing horse symbol. CC

1st March 2013, 05:02 PM	#6
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	Just a small correction referring the fokos - technically it is a Polish ciupaga, and a very distinctive one, though it seems rather recent.

1st March 2013, 07:23 PM	#8
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	I liked the last one (hammer head). Have a bunch of fokos myself. Have you seen the current production "tactical fokos" by United Cutlery? http://www.knivesanddefensedepot.com...nse/UC2905.jpg

1st March 2013, 08:17 PM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Wow! Glad I resurrected this old thread! I didn't know the difference between ciapaga versus the fokos, the latter of which I'd heard of. I especially like the bullova, an ax used by the Wild Tribes in the Chotta Nagpur region of India. Always thought of getting one for a conversation piece! Thanks for posting the pic of that Brit fire ax. Here, we can see the general pattern of the evolved boarding ax as a fire tool, but with a thinner blade and spike. Appreciate it, gents!

2nd March 2013, 09:32 PM	#12
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Hello, Junker. Was hoping you might pop up on this one. So now, apart from all the confusion of what is a boarding ax and what is a fire ax, we can now throw in that early fire implements were carried into war! I would imagine that boarding axes from the early era were used as early fire axes and they might have been put to use in modern warfare as well. Sigh- . Goes back to what I deduced earlier. Unless it is the classic boarding pattern with govt markings, it could be a private purchase maritime boarding piece or it could be fire. No clearer answer has come to me in the last decade I've been studying these...

3rd March 2013, 04:28 PM	#13
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 366	Hi Dirk, thanks for your answer to my question and yes that explains the pictures on the web of the fire axes being used in WWI. It all makes a lot more sense now - many thanks. I wonder if you have an approximate date of when these axes were first made? Kronckew - you have some great pieces, many types I had not even heard of - I am thinking that although some may be forged today they may well become classics tomorrow. I have heard it said that almost all cultures had swords of some description and the same must be true of axes but with many 'outdoor' trades having their own variation from roofer to trapper. And amazing to think that they have been a viable weapon from stoneage flint axe to vietnam hawk.