The Omani Sayf. ( The Omani Straight Dancing Sword)

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th February 2013, 09:18 AM

QUOTE=kahnjar1]OK Let me rephrase the question......Do ALL the straight bladed Omani swords which you have in your workshop, and describe as Omani, have "90 degree" flexible blades?
What I am trying to establish here, is that there was POSSIBLY a "combat" version of this sword in it's own right.[/QUOTE]

Salaams kahnjar1 . Yes all the Omani Sayfs ... The straight Omani Dancing swords bend massively... at least through 90 degrees and return immediately to straight.

None of the dancing swords I have ever seen are stiff.

Now the question we are all chasing down is... What about these stiff blades like the one you have? They are made differently being wing shaped in cross section but are they fighting swords or dancing ?... Technically they must be weapons but were fitted to Omani hilts when, why...and where? They could be part of the ensemble of swords fitted up in Muscat in the last 40 years... after all they have cross hilted thousands of swords.

That is one of the questions I have for the museum people.

In the meantime we may simply have a very odd situation we can't solve yet but somewhere down the line this one should unravel ~ meanwhile it's ringfenced.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

kahnjar1 · 24th February 2013, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

QUOTE=kahnjar1]OK Let me rephrase the question......Do ALL the straight bladed Omani swords which you have in your workshop, and describe as Omani, have "90 degree" flexible blades?
What I am trying to establish here, is that there was POSSIBLY a "combat" version of this sword in it's own right.

Salaams kahnjar1 . Yes all the Omani Sayfs ... The straight Omani Dancing swords bend massively... at least through 90 degrees and return immediately to straight.

None of the dancing swords I have ever seen are stiff.

Now the question we are all chasing down is... What about these stiff blades like the one you have? They are made differently being wing shaped in cross section but are they fighting swords or dancing ?... Technically they must be weapons but were fitted to Omani hilts when, why...and where? They could be part of the ensemble of swords fitted up in Muscat in the last 40 years... after all they have cross hilted thousands of swords.

That is one of the questions I have for the museum people.

In the meantime we may simply have a very odd situation we can't solve yet but somewhere down the line this one should unravel ~ meanwhile it's ringfenced.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.[/QUOTE]
Salaams Ibrahiim,

My question is still not answered......The Omani Sayfs in your workshop....are they ALL "90 degree"flexible blades (dancing swords)?

You state that those with 2" or so flexible blades, or stiff blades are not of Omani origin, so I assume that the above is true as you describe all your straight Sayfs as Omani. Please confirm.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th February 2013, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Salaams kahnjar1 . Yes all the Omani Sayfs ... The straight Omani Dancing swords bend massively... at least through 90 degrees and return immediately to straight.

None of the dancing swords I have ever seen are stiff.

Now the question we are all chasing down is... What about these stiff blades like the one you have? They are made differently being wing shaped in cross section but are they fighting swords or dancing ?... Technically they must be weapons but were fitted to Omani hilts when, why...and where? They could be part of the ensemble of swords fitted up in Muscat in the last 40 years... after all they have cross hilted thousands of swords.

That is one of the questions I have for the museum people.

In the meantime we may simply have a very odd situation we can't solve yet but somewhere down the line this one should unravel ~ meanwhile it's ringfenced.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Ibrahiim,

My question is still not answered......The Omani Sayfs in your workshop....are they ALL "90 degree"flexible blades (dancing swords)?

You state that those with 2" or so flexible blades, or stiff blades are not of Omani origin, so I assume that the above is true as you describe all your straight Sayfs as Omani. Please confirm.[/QUOTE]

Salaams, I refer you to the first line above in which I say... Yes all the Omani Sayfs ... The straight Omani Dancing swords bend massively... at least through 90 degrees and return immediately to straight. That applies to all of the Omani dancing swords in my collection... my workshop is not a sword "making" facility.

All the sword making workshops that I know of continue to turn out only flexible dancing swords in the format I describe.

It has always been my suspicion that the straight stiff variant "blade" is a Red Sea style previously a fighting blade perhaps Ottoman, Ethiopian Yemeni or even Algerian. For a comparison on an Omani hilt on a blade with a "similar" blade mark almost identical to an Algerian gun mark see Kattara for comments # 149 and #176.

My thoughts on Muscat rehilting are already placed.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th February 2013, 06:10 PM

Salaams Khanjar 1 ~ SO TO BE QUITE CLEAR ~

Yes all the Omani Sayfs ... The straight Omani Dancing swords bend massively... at least through 90 degrees and return immediately to straight. That applies to all of the Omani dancing swords in my collection... my workshop is not a sword "making" facility.

All the sword making workshops that I know of continue to turn out only flexible dancing swords in the format I describe.

It has always been my suspicion that the straight stiff variant "blade" is a Red Sea style previously a fighting blade perhaps Ottoman, Ethiopian Yemeni or even Algerian. For a comparison on an Omani hilt on a blade with a "similar" blade mark almost identical to an Algerian gun mark see Kattara for comments # 149 and #176.

My thoughts on Muscat rehilting are already placed.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 6th March 2013, 08:32 PM

Salaams all Update in Muscat.

I have tracked a number of points on the straight flexible dancing sword... The Omani Sayf. This is for confirmation (though it is already agreed by the Museums via another collector and close colleague whom I interviewed in Muscat yesterday) that precisely as I have explained previously the sword is purely for dancing and since its inception at the beginning of the current Albusaid Dynasty which I assume is 1744 though 1799 is also claimed...its role has been in the pageants as described and never... absolutely never as a weapon of war. The key proof is that this weapon was invented to march past and honour the Dynastic Albusaid monarch and not some previous family ruler...Obvious really !

The blade is supposed to be Omani, however, where other occasional foreign neighboring or distant blades appear it makes absolutely no difference to the core theme... Dancing Sword only. I am in the Museums on Tuesday next to collect the proof.
This is therefor simply an update..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Notes;
List of rulers that have been paraded past by tribesmen using the Straight Omani Sayf;

Al Bu Said Dynasty (1749–Present)
Abu Hilal Ahmad bin Said
10 June 1744
15 December 1783

Said bin Ahmad
15 December 1783
1784
Last direct male descendant of Al Bu Said to hold the office of Imam. He abdicated secular power to his son and retired to Rustaq where he died in 1803.

Hamad bin Said
1784
13 March 1792

Sultan bin Ahmad
13 March 1792
20 November 1804

Salim I bin Sultan and Said II bin Sultan
20 November 1804
14 September 1806
Co-Rulers

Said II bin Sultan
14 September 1806
19 October 1856 Sole Ruler

Thuwaini bin Said
19 October 1856
11 February 1866
Killed

Salim II bin Thuwaini
11 February 1866
3 October 1868
Killed

Azzan bin Qais
3 October 1868
30 January 1871
Killed

Turki bin Said
30 January 1871
4 June 1888

Faisal bin Turki
4 June 1888
9 October 1913
British protectorate imposed on 20 March 1891[28][29]

Taimur bin Feisal
9 October 1913
10 February 1932
Abdicated

Said III bin Taimur
10 February 1932
23 July 1970
Deposed

Qaboos bin Said

23 July 1970
Present
British protectorate ended on 2 December 1971

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 31st May 2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams all Update in Muscat.

I have tracked a number of points on the straight flexible dancing sword... The Omani Sayf. This is for confirmation (though it is already agreed by the Museums via another collector and close colleague whom I interviewed in Muscat yesterday) that precisely as I have explained previously the sword is purely for dancing and since its inception at the beginning of the current Albusaid Dynasty which I assume is 1744 though 1799 is also claimed...its role has been in the pageants as described and never... absolutely never as a weapon of war. The key proof is that this weapon was invented to march past and honour the Dynastic Albusaid monarch and not some previous family ruler...Obvious really !

The blade is supposed to be Omani, however, where other occasional foreign neighboring or distant blades appear it makes absolutely no difference to the core theme... Dancing Sword only. I am in the Museums on Tuesday next to collect the proof.
This is therefor simply an update..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Notes;
List of rulers that have been paraded past by tribesmen using the Straight Omani Sayf;

Al Bu Said Dynasty (1749–Present)
Abu Hilal Ahmad bin Said
10 June 1744
15 December 1783

Said bin Ahmad
15 December 1783
1784
Last direct male descendant of Al Bu Said to hold the office of Imam. He abdicated secular power to his son and retired to Rustaq where he died in 1803.

Hamad bin Said
1784
13 March 1792

Sultan bin Ahmad
13 March 1792
20 November 1804

Salim I bin Sultan and Said II bin Sultan
20 November 1804
14 September 1806
Co-Rulers

Said II bin Sultan
14 September 1806
19 October 1856 Sole Ruler

Thuwaini bin Said
19 October 1856
11 February 1866
Killed

Salim II bin Thuwaini
11 February 1866
3 October 1868
Killed

Azzan bin Qais
3 October 1868
30 January 1871
Killed

Turki bin Said
30 January 1871
4 June 1888

Faisal bin Turki
4 June 1888
9 October 1913
British protectorate imposed on 20 March 1891[28][29]

Taimur bin Feisal
9 October 1913
10 February 1932
Abdicated

Said III bin Taimur
10 February 1932
23 July 1970
Deposed

Qaboos bin Said

23 July 1970
Present
British protectorate ended on 2 December 1971

Salaams All~ The Museums support my long held theory that the Omani Straight Dancing Sword (The Omani Sayf) never saw action as a fighting blade, however, it was and is the Royal chosen form of Dynastic pageantry weapon with which to salute the Albusaid rulers down the ages.... from the start ... 1744.

It appears clear that the hilt transferred from the Kattara (A Ships Merchant, Slave Captains sword) and that the blade was sharpened on both edges and spatulate tipped and given the Terrs Shield in Honour of the Old Omani Battle Swords or the bearers of ... who went before.

The choice of very flexible, shimmering, broadsword was deliberate since the weapon is ideally suited for Royal march past by massed tribesmen and pageant and can be buzzed and thrown in the air and mock fought with relatively safely.

This was not a European import but was produced locally. European swords, moreover, were fighting weapons by definition... The Sayf was not.

Production continues locally today in Mussandam and Salalah for both the local market and the tourists.

The mark of a dancing sword is its ability to bend easily through 90 degrees from the tip and when released springs straight again immediately.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

kahnjar1 · 31st May 2013, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams All~ The Museums support my long held theory that the Omani Straight Dancing Sword (The Omani Sayf) never saw action as a fighting blade, however, it was and is the Royal chosen form of Dynastic pageantry weapon with which to salute the Albusaid rulers down the ages.... from the start ... 1744.

It appears clear that the hilt transferred from the Kattara (A Ships Merchant, Slave Captains sword) and that the blade was sharpened on both edges and spatulate tipped and given the Terrs Shield in Honour of the Old Omani Battle Swords or the bearers of ... who went before.

The choice of very flexible, shimmering, broadsword was deliberate since the weapon is ideally suited for Royal march past by massed tribesmen and pageant and can be buzzed and thrown in the air and mock fought with relatively safely.

This was not a European import but was produced locally. European swords, moreover, were fighting weapons by definition... The Sayf was not.

Production continues locally today in Mussandam and Salalah for both the local market and the tourists.

The mark of a dancing sword is its ability to bend easily through 90 degrees from the tip and when released springs straight again immediately.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

OK so where does the NON flexible straight Omani sword fit into your picture?

6th March 2013, 08:32 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams all Update in Muscat. I have tracked a number of points on the straight flexible dancing sword... The Omani Sayf. This is for confirmation (though it is already agreed by the Museums via another collector and close colleague whom I interviewed in Muscat yesterday) that precisely as I have explained previously the sword is purely for dancing and since its inception at the beginning of the current Albusaid Dynasty which I assume is 1744 though 1799 is also claimed...its role has been in the pageants as described and never... absolutely never as a weapon of war. The key proof is that this weapon was invented to march past and honour the Dynastic Albusaid monarch and not some previous family ruler...Obvious really ! The blade is supposed to be Omani, however, where other occasional foreign neighboring or distant blades appear it makes absolutely no difference to the core theme... Dancing Sword only. I am in the Museums on Tuesday next to collect the proof. This is therefor simply an update.. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Notes; List of rulers that have been paraded past by tribesmen using the Straight Omani Sayf; Al Bu Said Dynasty (1749–Present) Abu Hilal Ahmad bin Said 10 June 1744 15 December 1783 Said bin Ahmad 15 December 1783 1784 Last direct male descendant of Al Bu Said to hold the office of Imam. He abdicated secular power to his son and retired to Rustaq where he died in 1803. Hamad bin Said 1784 13 March 1792 Sultan bin Ahmad 13 March 1792 20 November 1804 Salim I bin Sultan and Said II bin Sultan 20 November 1804 14 September 1806 Co-Rulers Said II bin Sultan 14 September 1806 19 October 1856 Sole Ruler Thuwaini bin Said 19 October 1856 11 February 1866 Killed Salim II bin Thuwaini 11 February 1866 3 October 1868 Killed Azzan bin Qais 3 October 1868 30 January 1871 Killed Turki bin Said 30 January 1871 4 June 1888 Faisal bin Turki 4 June 1888 9 October 1913 British protectorate imposed on 20 March 1891[28][29] Taimur bin Feisal 9 October 1913 10 February 1932 Abdicated Said III bin Taimur 10 February 1932 23 July 1970 Deposed Qaboos bin Said 23 July 1970 Present British protectorate ended on 2 December 1971 Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 6th March 2013 at 09:03 PM.

24th February 2013, 09:18 AM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	QUOTE=kahnjar1]OK Let me rephrase the question......Do ALL the straight bladed Omani swords which you have in your workshop, and describe as Omani, have "90 degree" flexible blades? What I am trying to establish here, is that there was POSSIBLY a "combat" version of this sword in it's own right.[/QUOTE] Salaams kahnjar1 . Yes all the Omani Sayfs ... The straight Omani Dancing swords bend massively... at least through 90 degrees and return immediately to straight. None of the dancing swords I have ever seen are stiff. Now the question we are all chasing down is... What about these stiff blades like the one you have? They are made differently being wing shaped in cross section but are they fighting swords or dancing ?... Technically they must be weapons but were fitted to Omani hilts when, why...and where? They could be part of the ensemble of swords fitted up in Muscat in the last 40 years... after all they have cross hilted thousands of swords. That is one of the questions I have for the museum people. In the meantime we may simply have a very odd situation we can't solve yet but somewhere down the line this one should unravel ~ meanwhile it's ringfenced. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 24th February 2013 at 03:48 PM.

26th February 2013, 06:10 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Khanjar 1 ~ SO TO BE QUITE CLEAR ~ Yes all the Omani Sayfs ... The straight Omani Dancing swords bend massively... at least through 90 degrees and return immediately to straight. That applies to all of the Omani dancing swords in my collection... my workshop is not a sword "making" facility. All the sword making workshops that I know of continue to turn out only flexible dancing swords in the format I describe. It has always been my suspicion that the straight stiff variant "blade" is a Red Sea style previously a fighting blade perhaps Ottoman, Ethiopian Yemeni or even Algerian. For a comparison on an Omani hilt on a blade with a "similar" blade mark almost identical to an Algerian gun mark see Kattara for comments # 149 and #176. My thoughts on Muscat rehilting are already placed. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.