Nafplio, Greece.

eftihis · 23rd February 2013, 11:07 AM

Hi Syllektis,
N1. I dont know where the scabbard with the cretan knife was made. But it doesnt remind me any usuall Greek work.

N2. The yataghan and scabbard from Benaki museum is obviously made by a different workshop than the one of NAfplio, and is much better nade, although the work is not top quality.
Well, we should all have in mind that when profit and money are involved there is the temtation for deception and thus we should not take seller's claims for granted...
It is indeed amusing how many balkan items are "baptised" Greek by the Greek antique sellers...And how often the same item is described as "Cretan" to a Cretan, and as "epirote" to an Epirote. This mentality has led even foreign sellers to re-name everything ottoman they have as "Greek", as if half the Ottoman weapons ever made, were made in Greece!!!
THe problem with wealthy collectors is that they are anxious to find the "unique named historical piece" that some seller is ready to give them, so they "bite" this meal immediately and without critican thought. Like a woman (or a man...) that is anxious to hear "i love you"!!!
The problem with "theoretical" writers like Elgood is that they take as granted the previous written documents, and the collectors claims without going deeper to the source for investigations.
And also i you need to be a collector or have handle yourself the weapons many times before you write about them! Not describe them from photos...
Now put yourself in the position of a hero of the 1821 revolution... HAve fought for at least a decade, survived so many times for battles, has handled the best weapons as booty, and you are going to present him in order to honor him a yataghan that does not fit well in the scabbard? A yataghan that the scabbard is so much fatter that makes it difficult put in the "selahi"?
And how is it possible to make such a bad shape scabbard at a time (1830)when the existing scabbard makers were actually the same people making glove fit scabbards at least untill 10 years ago for a "pasha"?
Also some technical details:
If they made these in JAnnina in 1830s then the scabbards would actually of the well known type of the work made there then (no need for more detail, i am syure you know what i mean). Also one of the yataghan blades have a handle of "KAllarytes" style but tottaly irrelevant scabbard.
Also in the opening part of the scabbards there should have been some "wire turned together" in 3-4 rows. HEre there is only a simple hammered pattern, like a very low work. And finally, if you look the iconography of the designs, there are totally irrelevant between them and incosistent with the era motifs...(a sort of "fishing" ship instead of a galley, a "lion and dragon" design from a cretan knife! etc)
These scabbards are inteed a great example of Yannina silverwork, but of the 1960s, and this maker was used to making presentation silver like bowls and plates, not scabbards....

Sylektis · 24th February 2013, 04:33 AM

I agreed Eftihis, fakes is a very bad story in this market, we all know how many weapons and other Lord's Byron objects the Greek collectors have...

But we can discuss about crooks in another thread.
I will finish now my post from Nafplio.
The last photos are very interesting.

24th February 2013, 04:33 AM	#2
Sylektis Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 138	I agreed Eftihis, fakes is a very bad story in this market, we all know how many weapons and other Lord's Byron objects the Greek collectors have... But we can discuss about crooks in another thread. I will finish now my post from Nafplio. The last photos are very interesting. Attached Images

23rd February 2013, 11:07 AM	#1
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	Hi Syllektis, N1. I dont know where the scabbard with the cretan knife was made. But it doesnt remind me any usuall Greek work. N2. The yataghan and scabbard from Benaki museum is obviously made by a different workshop than the one of NAfplio, and is much better nade, although the work is not top quality. Well, we should all have in mind that when profit and money are involved there is the temtation for deception and thus we should not take seller's claims for granted... It is indeed amusing how many balkan items are "baptised" Greek by the Greek antique sellers...And how often the same item is described as "Cretan" to a Cretan, and as "epirote" to an Epirote. This mentality has led even foreign sellers to re-name everything ottoman they have as "Greek", as if half the Ottoman weapons ever made, were made in Greece!!! THe problem with wealthy collectors is that they are anxious to find the "unique named historical piece" that some seller is ready to give them, so they "bite" this meal immediately and without critican thought. Like a woman (or a man...) that is anxious to hear "i love you"!!! The problem with "theoretical" writers like Elgood is that they take as granted the previous written documents, and the collectors claims without going deeper to the source for investigations. And also i you need to be a collector or have handle yourself the weapons many times before you write about them! Not describe them from photos... Now put yourself in the position of a hero of the 1821 revolution... HAve fought for at least a decade, survived so many times for battles, has handled the best weapons as booty, and you are going to present him in order to honor him a yataghan that does not fit well in the scabbard? A yataghan that the scabbard is so much fatter that makes it difficult put in the "selahi"? And how is it possible to make such a bad shape scabbard at a time (1830)when the existing scabbard makers were actually the same people making glove fit scabbards at least untill 10 years ago for a "pasha"? Also some technical details: If they made these in JAnnina in 1830s then the scabbards would actually of the well known type of the work made there then (no need for more detail, i am syure you know what i mean). Also one of the yataghan blades have a handle of "KAllarytes" style but tottaly irrelevant scabbard. Also in the opening part of the scabbards there should have been some "wire turned together" in 3-4 rows. HEre there is only a simple hammered pattern, like a very low work. And finally, if you look the iconography of the designs, there are totally irrelevant between them and incosistent with the era motifs...(a sort of "fishing" ship instead of a galley, a "lion and dragon" design from a cretan knife! etc) These scabbards are inteed a great example of Yannina silverwork, but of the 1960s, and this maker was used to making presentation silver like bowls and plates, not scabbards....