The Omani Sayf. ( The Omani Straight Dancing Sword)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~ The Omani Sayf is not a weapon. It is an honorific dancing sword.

In the traditions there are two major parts played out with the Omani Sayf~

1. The Straight Dancing Sword is used in a sort of "parade past" generally in lines of massed participants (all male) waving the swords in a fashion that makes the blades shimmer. Occasional specialists throw the entire sword high in the air and catch it by the hilt.

2. The mimic fight; Two contestants "mimic fight" using Straight Swords and Shields (Sayf wa Terrs) The contest is won when one spatulate tip touches the thumb of the opponents shield hand. One touch only ends the contest.

Although these look like warlike manouvres they are only honoring their forefathers who went in to bat in real battles... with the Omani Battle Sword.
Indeed the Omani Dancing Sword is modelled on the old weapon but with the major differences being the long flexible blade on a long hilt. Retained in the design are many of the features of the old weapon including its sharp double edge and round tip as well as the use of the same shield ... The Terrs.

Naturally since this flexible dancing Sayf probably only appeared in about 1750 and the traditional dancing is ancient going back to the beginning of Ibathi Islam in 751AD it was the Battle Sword that was used previously in this part of The Funoon.

There is a fresh hypothesis in that prior to the advent of the flexible Sayf... that no Funoon dancing for swords existed and that the entire genre for sword work in the Funoon began with the flexible swords invention in about 1750?. It seems improbable since these traditions are handed down through the ages, however, that slim possibility is being examined via the Museums in Muscat and the Funoon authorities. In fact it would not make any difference to the general categorisation but it is being persued.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~ As a background piece I have copied below one of my posts from "Kattara for comments" which will continue to be a rich source for study . In viewing the dancing Sayf I questioned many groups of people from all over Oman none of whom considered the straight Sayf as anything other than a pageantry sword. Getting down to the same questions with those that ought to know focussed my attention on known sword makers since they would surely be knowledgeable about this ... The speciality of swordmaking is usually handed down father to son moreover in the profession of swordmakers the likelihood of discovering the true facts must rate as high.

Here is the article ~

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Salaams Reference note for Forum library.
From http://www.thenational.ae/news/.../...ng-trade-in-rak
Anecdotal Evidence; The Omani Sayf; Dancing Swords Only.

Quote "RAS AL KHAIMAH // In the markets of the old town, swords are easily available and readily sold to mountain tribesmen.

"All Shehhi [tribesmen] should have swords," said Azziz al Shehhi, 22. "It's nice for dancing, not for fighting. These are for gifts, for celebrations."
Mr al Shehhi owns four swords, four traditional knives and two rifles that belonged to his father. But the party favourite was always the sword, an essential for any mountain celebration, he said.

Strong swordsmanship is the mark of a good wedding for mountain tribes like the Shehhu and Habus. Swords are not raised in combat, but thrown metres in the air and then caught.

The swords are forged in the workshops of the old RAK market, many of which have operated for more than three decades.
Shopkeepers must be licensed to sell swords, but are not required to keep records of how many they sell or to whom.
They make them according to demand. Some months they may sell only one or two, and other months they will sell dozens, especially in the summer wedding season.

Swords can be bought in glass cases as gifts and are a traditional reward at sporting events such as camel races. More often they are sold as an accessory for weddings, along with the canes and the yerz, a tribal axe.
Swords are sold blunt so men can catch them while dancing, but can be easily sharpened. Honing usually comes at the behest of elders, who want swords sharpened to a fine edge to honour their forefathers.
Zahee Ahmed, 28, of Pakistan, sells to tribesmen, sheikhs and tourists, as well as to shops in Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Sharjah. He said he had yet to hear of any case of swords being used as a weapon. "It's not dangerous," said Mr Ahmed. "We make them for celebration, not for killing. This is not for fighting, it is only for culture. The man is crazy if he will fight."
There is no age requirement on who can buy a sword, but some stores will only sell to Emiratis.

For many years, bargain hunters would often skip the markets of old RAK and buy from the family of Charchambi Daad Mohammed, a Baluchi axe and sword maker who crafted the weapons in his house.
Until last year, he roamed the streets of the Nakheel market with a bundle of swords and axes under his arm to be sold to whoever had the cash.
The swords business got a boost last December after Fujairah's first annual Al Saif Traditional Sword Competition, in which TV viewers and audience members voted by SMS for their favourite sword dancer.
RAK swordsmiths reported a sharp rise in demand for a month afterwards". Unquote.

None of the Museums have, as yet, disagreed with that concept. I am on a research session in March April and May in amongst the Muscat museums and will report on any findings.

It is very clear up to now that the Sayf in this thread; The Omani Dancing Sword; has never been used in war or fighting ever... but is solely used as a Pageantry sword.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams All ~ As a background piece I have copied below one of my posts from "Kattara for comments" which will continue to be a rich source for study . In viewing the dancing Sayf I questioned many groups of people from all over Oman none of whom considered the straight Sayf as anything other than a pageantry sword. Getting down to the same questions with those that ought to know focussed my attention on known sword makers since they would surely be knowledgeable about this ... The speciality of swordmaking is usually handed down father to son moreover in the profession of swordmakers the likelihood of discovering the true facts must rate as high.

Here is the article ~

Hi Ibrahiim,

Interesting article, however I think it's important to point out the article is purely in reference to modern practices and use of the sword - it's not discussing the weapon in a historical context and in that sense the information it relays doesn't detail either for or against the sword being purely a dance article over the entire life of the form.

For me at least, there are three major areas that stand out with regards to the straight sayf:

1. Why do the blades follow the form of 18-19th century trade blades if they have never used trade blades with this hilt style.

2. Why the application of blade stamps if they have never used imported blades in these style mounts.

3. Given the above, why would the same hilt be applied to combat ready swords only in the context of curved blades with plenty of straight, quality European blades also floating around.

I simply can't see the reason behind going to the trouble of copying a functional blade form, from outside the culture no less, just for the sake of adapting it into a dancing item while happily using curved blades as is. This is absolutely nothing to do with what they are used for now - it's a question of why the form evolved to what it is now and from what. Why this pattern of blade, why the penchant for European style blade marks?

As I've said a few times before on these threads, I don't have any stake in these discussions. These weapons aren't my area and I don't own any. I'm an impartial reader.

Frankly this has nothing to do with the question of combat or non combat - but has everything to do with the notion that the straight swords never used heavier, imported blades.

Cheers,

Iain

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi Ibrahiim,

Interesting article, however I think it's important to point out the article is purely in reference to modern practices and use of the sword - it's not discussing the weapon in a historical context and in that sense the information it relays doesn't detail either for or against the sword being purely a dance article over the entire life of the form.

For me at least, there are three major areas that stand out with regards to the straight sayf:

1. Why do the blades follow the form of 18-19th century trade blades if they have never used trade blades with this hilt style.

2. Why the application of blade stamps if they have never used imported blades in these style mounts.

3. Given the above, why would the same hilt be applied to combat ready swords only in the context of curved blades with plenty of straight, quality European blades also floating around.

I simply can't see the reason behind going to the trouble of copying a functional blade form, from outside the culture no less, just for the sake of adapting it into a dancing item while happily using curved blades as is. This is absolutely nothing to do with what they are used for now - it's a question of why the form evolved to what it is now and from what. Why this pattern of blade, why the penchant for European style blade marks?

As I've said a few times before on these threads, I don't have any stake in these discussions. These weapons aren't my area and I don't own any. I'm an impartial reader.

Frankly this has nothing to do with the question of combat or non combat - but has everything to do with the notion that the straight swords never used heavier, imported blades.

Cheers,

Iain

Salaams Iain, Thank you for your post . It is my view (and apparently the same view is held by the Omani Museums which I will confirm in due course) that the Sayf has always been only a pageantry sword and never used in combat from its induction as a dancing sword probably at the beginning of the current ruling family dynasty in 1744... give or take a few years.

The item I reintroduced above was only back up to the situation and unfortunately the better of the two references contained in it ... The old Baluch sword maker wasn't questioned...We think that sword making in RAK goes back about 75 years but beyond that it is hard to establish. So I use it as a modest indicator but obviously one would expect them to have some historical knowledge of its prior history.

The straight Omani Sayf ... or what I call the pageantry sword or dancing sword is in my view based upon the only other straight sword in the Omani arsenal and I have compared it with that sword on Kattara for comments at #312. In essence this is not viewed by me as an outside sword moreover as a copied style mirroring the Omani Battle Sword. The Omani Battle Sword is not only similar but its Terrs Shield was also passed on to the Dancing Sayf as its accompanying shield in the honorific pageantry role.

Your questions are answered as under~

1. Why do the blades follow the form of 18-19th century trade blades if they have never used trade blades with this hilt style?

It could be that this sword evolved entirely from the Yemeni long hilt not from the trade blade..however again I point out the similarities in blade design to the Omani Battle Sword. In my view and having seen tons of these pageantry blades~ they are very flexible broad and spatulate tipped but not stamped with European blade stamps... at least not original ones. Many have absolutely local stamps...whilst many have none. They are deeply fullered to increase flex and lighten the swords...They appear as random local manufacture not least by Zutoot "Gypsy" wandering workshops pre 1970.. and likely to have been made in Nizwa and Muscat and lately in the last half century in RAK and in Salalah though I need more research on the latter.

2. Why the application of blade stamps if they have never used imported blades in these style mounts?

The regions sword makers have been copying blade stamps for hundreds of years. It is not necessarily a way of implying that the blade is by that maker but more a quality stamp perhaps in honour of great previous blade makers. Of course there is always the chance that it is simply a way to place a higher price on a blade. I shall be checking on the Museums collections for straight blades with original European stamps in a week or two. I see nothing sinister with running wolf copied squigles on swords here nor TAJ British India strikes. They were all done locally. I have met the sword joiners in Muscat who have since 1970 been uniting Omani longhilts on European blades still plentiful in the souk chain of supply mainly from Sanaa. These are tourist aimed.

3. Given the above, why would the same hilt be applied to combat ready swords only in the context of curved blades with plenty of straight, quality European blades also floating around?

I think by that you mean why was the same hilt applied to the Omani Curved Kattara and the Omani Sayf at the same time when one was a fighting blade and the other wasnt? Firstly, I don't think the curved was only a weapon... but more importantly a badge of office for a Ships Captain or VIP including occasionally Royalty and important slave traders like Tippu Tip. I don't view this curved sword as a battle sword though it would certainly work if struck by one ! On the other hand it was not seen with shield ..because it was only an identifier of rank though on occasions perhaps it was unleashed in anger as a punisher..It too failed to make it into the history books as a battle sword... in fact that was not its intention; "Badge of Office" was.

It is also worth remembering that the straight Sayf and curved Kattara swords appeared inside the parameters of the gunpowder timeframe and that swords were on their way out as fighting weapons vice long barrels and cannon. The demise of the spear also happened early on in the gunpowder revolution.

My theory stands based on the above and on the Funoon and the fact that the Omani Battle Sword and Terrs were the original battlefield duo and never changed in a thousand years. The sword even becoming Iconised and by the designer Sheherazad; a wife of Saiid Sultan 1804 to 1856. (Probably about 1850)

The timeframe I seek to prove the appearance of the Sayf (and probably the Kattara) is within that rulers scope or a little before perhaps at the beginning of the Dynasty in 1744..That is where I am looking.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Iain, Thank you for your post . It is my view (and apparently the same view is held by the Omani Museums which I will confirm in due course) that the Sayf has always been only a pageantry sword and never used in combat from its induction as a dancing sword probably at the beginning of the current ruling family dynasty in 1744... give or take a few years.

The item I reintroduced above was only back up to the situation and unfortunately the better of the two references contained in it ... The old Baluch sword maker wasn't questioned...We think that sword making in RAK goes back about 75 years but beyond that it is hard to establish. So I use it as a modest indicator but obviously one would expect them to have some historical knowledge of its prior history.

The straight Omani Sayf ... or what I call the pageantry sword or dancing sword is in my view based upon the only other straight sword in the Omani arsenal and I have compared it with that sword on Kattara for comments at #312. In essence this is not viewed by me as an outside sword moreover as a copied style mirroring the Omani Battle Sword. The Omani Battle Sword is not only similar but its Terrs Shield was also passed on to the Dancing Sayf as its accompanying shield in the honorific pageantry role.

Hi Ibrahiim,

Lets leave the combat/non combat question at the door for a bit. Its not really key to what I'm getting at.

I'm afraid I really fail to see this as much of a progression from the older Omani sword style. Flat, wider, shorter blades to longer, narrower fullered blades? Not much of a connection to my eyes...

It could be that this sword evolved entirely from the Yemeni long hilt not from the trade blade..however again I point out the similarities in blade design to the Omani Battle Sword. In my view and having seen tons of these pageantry blades~ they are very flexible broad and spatulate tipped but not stamped with European blade stamps... at least not original ones. Many have absolutely local stamps...whilst many have none. They are deeply fullered to increase flex and lighten the swords...They appear as random local manufacture not least by Zutoot "Gypsy" wandering workshops pre 1970.. and likely to have been made in Nizwa and Muscat and lately in the last half century in RAK and in Salalah though I need more research on the latter.

See above - the Omani battle sword doesn't have many similarities. The Yemeni long hilts - lots of trade blades to be found in those...

The regions sword makers have been copying blade stamps for hundreds of years. It is not necessarily a way of implying that the blade is by that maker but more a quality stamp perhaps in honour of great previous blade makers. Of course there is always the chance that it is simply a way to place a higher price on a blade. I shall be checking on the Museums collections for straight blades with original European stamps in a week or two. I see nothing sinister with running wolf copied squigles on swords here nor TAJ British India strikes. They were all done locally. I have met the sword joiners in Muscat who have since 1970 been uniting Omani longhilts on European blades still plentiful in the souk chain of supply mainly from Sanaa. These are tourist aimed.

If your point of view is that the straight sayf is directly related to the Omani battle sword - this makes no sense. The battle sword, at least all I've seen, don't have stamps. Why start on the dancing swords? It frankly makes no difference if the stamps are done locally or abroad - they are applied because they imply something. Quality usually, quality to be found in imported blades. Again, this is not a question of what is done now, it is a question of origins.

Your explanation provides no reasoning as to why stamps would start appearing on dance swords when they weren't on battle swords.

I think by that you mean why was the same hilt applied to the Omani Curved Kattara and the Omani Sayf at the same time when one was a fighting blade and the other wasnt? Firstly, I don't think the curved was only a weapon... but more importantly a badge of office for a Ships Captain or VIP including occasionally Royalty and important slave traders like Tippu Tip. I don't view this curved sword as a battle sword though it would certainly work if struck by one ! On the other hand it was not seen with shield ..because it was only an identifier of rank though on occasions perhaps it was unleashed in anger as a punisher..It too failed to make it into the history books as a battle sword... in fact that was not its intention; "Badge of Office" was.

It is also worth remembering that the straight Sayf and curved Kattara swords appeared inside the parameters of the gunpowder timeframe and that swords were on their way out as fighting weapons vice long barrels and cannon. The demise of the spear also happened early on in the gunpowder revolution.

My theory stands based on the above and on the Funoon and the fact that the Omani Battle Sword and Terrs were the original battlefield duo and never changed in a thousand years. The sword even becoming Iconised and by the designer Sheherazad; a wife of Saiid Sultan 1804 to 1856. (Probably about 1850)

The timeframe I seek to prove the appearance of the Sayf (and probably the Kattara) is within that rulers scope or a little before perhaps at the beginning of the Dynasty in 1744..That is where I am looking.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Unfortunately I have the exact same problems still as before. Moving from a flat, broad and unfullered blade to a long, more narrow fullered blade that happens to match up in profile with widely available European exports and have the application of blade stamps which weren't used on the older form (whether local or European in application makes no difference) plus the simultaneous uptake of European curved blades into the same hilt style... Quite a lot of coincidences to just discount I'd say...

What drove the uptake of European trade blades in most regions of the world can be broken down into a few basic areas.

• Availability
• Effectiveness/quality
• Cost
• Symbolism

They were widely available, they were of excellent quality steel and the cost was proportional to the first two attributes. Symbolism and status are a natural follow on from the first attributes.

For me, there are still some broad gaps in the theory you've presented and I'll try to distill them once more in bullet form, really I think there are two points to focus on.

• The "coincidence" of triple fuller dance swords appearing at just about the time European trade blades of the same pattern are widely available
• The use of stamps in Oman, even if locally copied. These ONLY can be attributed to an experience of European blades lending attributes to the marks - such as an indication of quality. Otherwise there is no reason for them to be copied and applied.

I'll just try to make myself absolutely clear, this has nothing to do with dancing, pageantry, combat or non combat. It's simply a question of where the blade form came from - no matter what the modern iterations are.

Cheers,

Iain

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi Ibrahiim,

Lets leave the combat/non combat question at the door for a bit. Its not really key to what I'm getting at.

I'm afraid I really fail to see this as much of a progression from the older Omani sword style. Flat, wider, shorter blades to longer, narrower fullered blades? Not much of a connection to my eyes...



See above - the Omani battle sword doesn't have many similarities. The Yemeni long hilts - lots of trade blades to be found in those...



If your point of view is that the straight sayf is directly related to the Omani battle sword - this makes no sense. The battle sword, at least all I've seen, don't have stamps. Why start on the dancing swords? It frankly makes no difference if the stamps are done locally or abroad - they are applied because they imply something. Quality usually, quality to be found in imported blades. Again, this is not a question of what is done now, it is a question of origins.

Your explanation provides no reasoning as to why stamps would start appearing on dance swords when they weren't on battle swords.




Unfortunately I have the exact same problems still as before. Moving from a flat, broad and unfullered blade to a long, more narrow fullered blade that happens to match up in profile with widely available European exports and have the application of blade stamps which weren't used on the older form (whether local or European in application makes no difference) plus the simultaneous uptake of European curved blades into the same hilt style... Quite a lot of coincidences to just discount I'd say...

What drove the uptake of European trade blades in most regions of the world can be broken down into a few basic areas.

• Availability
• Effectiveness/quality
• Cost
• Symbolism

They were widely available, they were of excellent quality steel and the cost was proportional to the first two attributes. Symbolism and status are a natural follow on from the first attributes.

For me, there are still some broad gaps in the theory you've presented and I'll try to distill them once more in bullet form, really I think there are two points to focus on.

• The "coincidence" of triple fuller dance swords appearing at just about the time European trade blades of the same pattern are widely available
• The use of stamps in Oman, even if locally copied. These ONLY can be attributed to an experience of European blades lending attributes to the marks - such as an indication of quality. Otherwise there is no reason for them to be copied and applied.

I'll just try to make myself absolutely clear, this has nothing to do with dancing, pageantry, combat or non combat. It's simply a question of where the blade form came from - no matter what the modern iterations are.

Cheers,

Iain

Salaams Iain, I have not yet seen an old Omani blade with anything resembling an original European mark on it..I am at this time of the belief that in about Circa 1744 to 1850 the call went out for a pageantry sword to take over from the Omani Battle Sword in the traditions only... not for fighting. I have to say that I am continuing to persue both swords involvement and to discover for certain if the sword dances began when the flexible blade appeared or before with the Old Omani Battle Sword. Was the Omani Sayf really just invented as a pageantry sword by the new Dynasty or what? There is nothing in the entire Funoon to indicate that it was a battle field weapon ..but a great deal to indicate its honorific quality only. You would imagine that we would have a few battle names or some evidence to show some fighting took place with this dancing sword but there isn't any..

In viewing both swords and their similarities I have shown that this is a copy of the old Battle Sword but with no lethality. i.e. The blade is flexible to the point of being almost floppy. Its main and only quality is for buzzing in the air and as a mimic of the old weapon. Broadsword, sharp on both sides, spatulate tipped, used with the Terrs, and the hilt is very similar if you break it down with cuff style incorporated into the long hilt etc.

I intend to discover from Museum archives the exact date the sword appeared and who invented the concept.. We already have a Sultans wife in the frame for the Turban The Omani Royal Khanjar and The Omani Battle Sword iconic hilt. I hope to ID the originator of the Straight dancing sword.

Your note as to the symultaneous take up of the curved sword The Kattara is interesting and though I also believe it happenend at the same time I cannot prove it or when. Although the whats in a name debate is not relevant I have to say that Kuddara the Persian example is close ..on passing.. and has the heavy backblade and very slight curve although near the tip...but just to illustrate that other blades can be placed in the frame for the origin of the curved and of course the same applies to straight blades mainly out of the Ottoman stables.

The thread Yemeni Sayfs? Omani Kattaras? by Swedegreen I believe may hold clues to the Omani Sayfs beginnings.

Of course I agree about the fullers ... and in doing so also point out the myriad of Omani ones of varying length one, three and some going the whole hog right to the tip called Abu Falaj ... "The one with the irrigation channels". Anyway through trade the Omanis would have viewed all sorts of Fullered swords and at some point concluded that this was the style they wanted on the straight job... which I still say was brought on as the honorific shimmering pageantry sword and never a weapon.

That is "my understanding" and I have seen no evidence to the contrary but I have always driven the debate from the pageantry viewpoint ~ I mean I had no choice as no definitive details are yet to hand on its blade origin... but the pointers are there for local production... local stamping...and local use in the Traditions.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Iain, I have not yet seen an old Omani blade with anything resembling an original European mark on it..I am at this time of the belief that in about Circa 1744 to 1850 the call went out for a pageantry sword to take over from the Omani Battle Sword in the traditions only... not for fighting. I have to say that I am continuing to persue both swords involvement and to discover for certain if the sword dances began when the flexible blade appeared or before with the Old Omani Battle Sword. Was the Omani Sayf really just invented as a pageantry sword by the new Dynasty or what? There is nothing in the entire Funoon to indicate that it was a battle field weapon ..but a great deal to indicate its honorific quality only. You would imagine that we would have a few battle names or some evidence to show some fighting took place with this dancing sword but there isn't any..

Hi Ibrahiim,

I'll get into the marks again a bit below, but this is broadly why I didn't want to get caught up in the combat/non combat idea. I think its a bit counterproductive to examining the origins of the blade form and is leading to some preconceptions that are perhaps not entirely supported. I think you are certainly asking the right questions - i.e. why does this form pop up. Although the conclusions you are drawing aren't ones I can fully get behind.

In viewing both swords and their similarities I have shown that this is a copy of the old Battle Sword but with no lethality. i.e. The blade is flexible to the point of being almost floppy. Its main and only quality is for buzzing in the air and as a mimic of the old weapon. Broadsword, sharp on both sides, spatulate tipped, used with the Terrs, and the hilt is very similar if you break it down with cuff style incorporated into the long hilt etc.

This is where I just have to flat out disagree. There are major differences that I've pointed out between the two forms.

• Length
• Profile
• Use of fullering
• Use of blade marks

The characteristics of the straight sayf are quite different then than the older battle sword form. To say it is merely a copy of the older form without the former's functionality is difficult to support I think. If that where the case, there would be no reason to adapt the different hilt, no reason to lengthen the blade, no reason to do anything really other than increase the flexibility and even that raises some interesting questions...

There's also the interesting question of why flexibility is important in the dance... Because of aesthetics? Because flexibility used to be considered an important quality for selecting blades (in a combat/usage sense) then taken to an extreme for effect in the dance? As I recall you have mentioned in fact that the older style is quite stiff. So that produces another question, when and why the focus on flexible blades.

Just to touch briefly on the stamps again but I guess my original point wasn't expressed clearly enough... It is not a question of local stamping versus European stamping. It is purely a question of why local makers used stamps clearly taken from a foreign context. The only logical reason is because blades with those original stamps were known, respected for their quality and thus the stamps and marks were worth the effort to copy.

Of course I agree about the fullers ... and in doing so also point out the myriad of Omani ones of varying length one, three and some going the whole hog right to the tip called Abu Falaj ... "The one with the irrigation channels". Anyway through trade the Omanis would have viewed all sorts of Fullered swords and at some point concluded that this was the style they wanted on the straight job... which I still say was brought on as the honorific shimmering pageantry sword and never a weapon.

I'm glad you agree about the fullers - if you take the battle sword as a pattern of sword production before the straight sayf - the use of fullering is then due to outside influence. Why was it adopted? Why was this style chosen and how did they gain experience of this form if they weren't using these blades from a foreign context? It's not the sort of choice that I can imagining happening "overnight" and requires as a pre requisite: contact, use and evaluation. All of this points strongly to the use of straight blades, from a foreign source, in an Omani context.

That is "my understanding" and I have seen no evidence to the contrary but I have always driven the debate from the pageantry viewpoint ~ I mean I had no choice as no definitive details are yet to hand on its blade origin... but the pointers are there for local production... local stamping...and local use in the Traditions.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I've always found your efforts intriguing about this type and as you note your approach as always been from a certain viewpoint which I can understand. However I think the approach has certain inherent weaknesses (as do all approaches in varying respects). The main issue I see is that the pageantry viewpoint is inherently leading to often examining the form from the viewpoint of what the sword form is used for now and all that goes with that in a modern context - local production, local stamps etc. However that has left to the side the questions of origin. No matter if the blades are produced locally and the stamps locally done as well - where is the vector, the point of change which caused this to happen? Why such a close coincidence with European trade blades? Again, for me personally, its a little much to attribute to chance. The central question remains, as it has over the course of these discussions for me, the point of change between the older form and the newer. The idea that the newer is simply a development of the older form is still I think tenuous at best for all the reasons highlighted above.

Just a brief note when it comes to local sources and looking at modern versions of traditions like dance - I've had some experience with this in my own research areas. Unfortunately, and this is quite frustrating, the people inside the culture using a weapon are quite often not as interested in the history of it as we might be. The sort of detail we look for is often not preserved and I think conjecture over a period of several hundred years based on examining largely modern examples of a form is not conclusive. Particularly because you've noted that in a modern context the stiffer attributes of trade blades would not be desirable and thus unlikely to be encountered in the present day in the region - they aren't in demand.

This ties into your point about lack of evidence for an alternative to your theory - I personally think the evidence is there. It may be implied rather than a physical example in your hand - but it is there. From fullers to blade length. I've highlighted in past threads examples with likely European blades, always from collections and auctions outside the region. This ties directly into my point above - these are less likely to be encountered locally, going on all the detailed info you've given about the current situation of sayf manufacture and use - because nobody would want them now.

Hopefully the museums will have some more info they can make available to you of documented, older pieces. Ideally something 18th century that's known to have not been rehilted or otherwise changed.

Cheers,

Iain