What is the meaning behind this gandik type?

Bjorn · 9th February 2013, 02:19 PM

Many thanks, Alan.

I was hoping this representation also came from the Hindu-Buddhist era but it seems it's more likely a depiction of a very local story or simply of the maker's own design.

It has always surprised me that garuda hasn't figured more prominently on keris. To me, the wing motif seems to fit so excellently on the bottom part of the blade and Garuda must certainly have been a well respected figure back then.

Regarding the deer, in the Hindu-Buddhist period, did the depiction of a deer refer to the golden deer of the Ramayana? Or did it have an autochthonous meaning to the Javanese?

A. G. Maisey · 9th February 2013, 09:58 PM

At the present time I think most keris orientated people tend to identify the deer with Majapahit, but it seems more probable to me that the deer in Hindu-Javanese iconography was associated with minor nobles. In Bali, which is the cultural descendant of Majapahit, the sarcophagus of minor nobles is a deer.

simatua · 10th February 2013, 02:58 PM

Here another figural bali keris, which was recently on sale at an Dutch auction site. I had never seen a figural gandik seen with a hanuman. Although i only see this pictures, and not the keris in life. looking at the pictures this is 19 th century keris

Bjorn · 10th February 2013, 05:33 PM

Alan, very interesting to hear about the deer-shaped sarcophogi. I especially love to learn details like this since it all adds to understanding the local cosmology and symbolism.

Simatua, I have recently also come across a gandik with Hanuman. Since, I have actually seen it on several keris on a collector's site. All of them depicted Hanuman in battle with a sea dragon, which refers to events in the Ramayana. The overall design was consistent on all keris: the sea dragon coiled around Hanuman's legs. The design you show above - depicting only Hanuman - is completely new for me. I love how the curve of the tail is seamlessly integrated into the design of the blade.

In my opinion, the Hanuman-dragon design is a very nice one, especially if you like Hanuman. I hope to own a good quality keris with a Hanuman like that one day.

A. G. Maisey · 10th February 2013, 09:11 PM

The combination of a Naga and monkey in Balinese symbolism is a confusing one. If we assume the monkey to be Hanuman, and the serpent to be the Naga Basuki (Vasuki) , both of which assumptions are probably more likely than any assignment of different characters to these figures, then it becomes a matter of searching for some connection between the two in Hindu-Balinese stories. Personally, I do not know of any such connection, so it possibly gets back to a matter of some personal or local iconography.

I have heard, or read, one story where Hanuman and Basuki appear together, but in my memory I do not associate this story with Bali, I've forgotten what the association is. Briefly it goes something like this:- when Basuki was being used as the churning rope Hanuman was involved in pulling on Basuki's tail --- along with Rawana and a cast of other characters. This in itself is a peculiar combination of characters, because in the original Bhagavatapurana, Hanuman and Rawana do not get a run in the story. But as I said, I do not associate this story with Bali; possibly it belongs in one of the other Hindu influenced cultures of SE Asia. Pretty sure its not mainstream Hindu.

However, the one thing that this combination of characters does demonstrate is that the keris upon which they appear is without doubt a very young one, as this iconography has moved away from traditional socio-religious application.

Bjorn · 10th February 2013, 10:30 PM

Alan, do you have any idea of when the Hanuman-naga combination became known/popular in Bali? I have seen it on only 3 keris so far but have noticed that it is rather more prevalent in woodcrafts that show Hanuman fighting with a naga.

On the net I have come across several mentions of encounters between Hanuman and naga, but as you pointed out there are many local variations of the Indian epics so I have no idea what the Balinese connection is or how young/old it would be. Might it be possible that it was already known on Bali before it became depicted on keris?

A. G. Maisey · 11th February 2013, 04:20 AM

Yuuzan, I've just done a few google searches using different combinations of naga:hanuman:vasuki:fight:connection:association --- &etc&etc&etc and in all results down to page 5 I can only find advertisements for oil, accountants, wood carvings and so on; I cannot find a single entry for any of these search term combinations from a legitimate Hindu site.

As to when the motif became popular, I have not the slightest idea. I think I've probably been seeing it since the 1970's. It is a very popular motif, but that does not mean that it has a legitimate religious or mythological foundation, it simply means that it is a motif that translates well into art work, and pleasing art work translates well into $$$$.

I'm not saying here that it does not have a religious or mythological foundation, I'm saying I do not know of one, and in spite of looking for such a relationship in my own resources, plus about 30 minutes with Dr. Google, I cannot find one.

When we try to interpret these things its a very good idea to start from a point that may give us some indication of whether or not we are looking at a continuation of tradition, or a creation influenced by non-traditional motives (that is motive with a 'v', not motif with an 'f'). Once we move into the era of Balinese tourism, probably roughly the mid-1930's we must be very careful with our interpretations.

10th February 2013, 02:58 PM	#3
simatua Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 69	another figural bali keris Here another figural bali keris, which was recently on sale at an Dutch auction site. I had never seen a figural gandik seen with a hanuman. Although i only see this pictures, and not the keris in life. looking at the pictures this is 19 th century keris Attached Images

9th February 2013, 02:19 PM	#1
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	Many thanks, Alan. I was hoping this representation also came from the Hindu-Buddhist era but it seems it's more likely a depiction of a very local story or simply of the maker's own design. It has always surprised me that garuda hasn't figured more prominently on keris. To me, the wing motif seems to fit so excellently on the bottom part of the blade and Garuda must certainly have been a well respected figure back then. Regarding the deer, in the Hindu-Buddhist period, did the depiction of a deer refer to the golden deer of the Ramayana? Or did it have an autochthonous meaning to the Javanese?

9th February 2013, 09:58 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	At the present time I think most keris orientated people tend to identify the deer with Majapahit, but it seems more probable to me that the deer in Hindu-Javanese iconography was associated with minor nobles. In Bali, which is the cultural descendant of Majapahit, the sarcophagus of minor nobles is a deer.

10th February 2013, 05:33 PM	#4
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	Alan, very interesting to hear about the deer-shaped sarcophogi. I especially love to learn details like this since it all adds to understanding the local cosmology and symbolism. Simatua, I have recently also come across a gandik with Hanuman. Since, I have actually seen it on several keris on a collector's site. All of them depicted Hanuman in battle with a sea dragon, which refers to events in the Ramayana. The overall design was consistent on all keris: the sea dragon coiled around Hanuman's legs. The design you show above - depicting only Hanuman - is completely new for me. I love how the curve of the tail is seamlessly integrated into the design of the blade. In my opinion, the Hanuman-dragon design is a very nice one, especially if you like Hanuman. I hope to own a good quality keris with a Hanuman like that one day.

10th February 2013, 09:11 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	The combination of a Naga and monkey in Balinese symbolism is a confusing one. If we assume the monkey to be Hanuman, and the serpent to be the Naga Basuki (Vasuki) , both of which assumptions are probably more likely than any assignment of different characters to these figures, then it becomes a matter of searching for some connection between the two in Hindu-Balinese stories. Personally, I do not know of any such connection, so it possibly gets back to a matter of some personal or local iconography. I have heard, or read, one story where Hanuman and Basuki appear together, but in my memory I do not associate this story with Bali, I've forgotten what the association is. Briefly it goes something like this:- when Basuki was being used as the churning rope Hanuman was involved in pulling on Basuki's tail --- along with Rawana and a cast of other characters. This in itself is a peculiar combination of characters, because in the original Bhagavatapurana, Hanuman and Rawana do not get a run in the story. But as I said, I do not associate this story with Bali; possibly it belongs in one of the other Hindu influenced cultures of SE Asia. Pretty sure its not mainstream Hindu. However, the one thing that this combination of characters does demonstrate is that the keris upon which they appear is without doubt a very young one, as this iconography has moved away from traditional socio-religious application.

10th February 2013, 10:30 PM	#6
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	Alan, do you have any idea of when the Hanuman-naga combination became known/popular in Bali? I have seen it on only 3 keris so far but have noticed that it is rather more prevalent in woodcrafts that show Hanuman fighting with a naga. On the net I have come across several mentions of encounters between Hanuman and naga, but as you pointed out there are many local variations of the Indian epics so I have no idea what the Balinese connection is or how young/old it would be. Might it be possible that it was already known on Bali before it became depicted on keris?

11th February 2013, 04:20 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yuuzan, I've just done a few google searches using different combinations of naga:hanuman:vasuki:fight:connection:association --- &etc&etc&etc and in all results down to page 5 I can only find advertisements for oil, accountants, wood carvings and so on; I cannot find a single entry for any of these search term combinations from a legitimate Hindu site. As to when the motif became popular, I have not the slightest idea. I think I've probably been seeing it since the 1970's. It is a very popular motif, but that does not mean that it has a legitimate religious or mythological foundation, it simply means that it is a motif that translates well into art work, and pleasing art work translates well into $$$$. I'm not saying here that it does not have a religious or mythological foundation, I'm saying I do not know of one, and in spite of looking for such a relationship in my own resources, plus about 30 minutes with Dr. Google, I cannot find one. When we try to interpret these things its a very good idea to start from a point that may give us some indication of whether or not we are looking at a continuation of tradition, or a creation influenced by non-traditional motives (that is motive with a 'v', not motif with an 'f'). Once we move into the era of Balinese tourism, probably roughly the mid-1930's we must be very careful with our interpretations.