Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 17th February 2005, 05:37 PM   #1
erlikhan
Member
 
erlikhan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 446
Default Military Museum Pictures

You like edged weapons? Ok here they are. More than you can watch and i can upload at once. From Military Museum in Istanbul. Around 80 pics taken by me. I will continue the series when i have time. Keep visiting periodically
Attached Images
          
erlikhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2005, 05:43 PM   #2
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,196
Default

Thanks Erlikhan, this looks like it is going to be a great thread.
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2005, 05:47 PM   #3
erlikhan
Member
 
erlikhan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 446
Default

1- Original Janissary costume with its mountings
2- Sword of Suleyman 1, the magnificent. 1530.
it writes "ones who died by your sword lie everywhere like drunks. I wonder if masters vined your sword instead of watering"
3-Another kilij for Suleyman 1.
4-I try to take close view
5-Belongs to Selim the Grim. 1512
6-Close view
7-a strange ,gigantic hilted two hand Turkish dagger .19th century
8-Coralled and jewelled sword of Murat 4. 1630
9-Coralled Turkish kilij. 19th cent.
10-Another janissary
erlikhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2005, 06:01 PM   #4
erlikhan
Member
 
erlikhan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 446
Default

1- Ruby and emerald Iran kilij. 17th cent.
2- Ruby and emerald Turkish kilij .17th cent. See the significant similarities of scabbard decorations.
3- 2 gold engraved Turkish .17th cent.
Attached Images
   
erlikhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2005, 06:11 PM   #5
Jeff D
Member
 
Jeff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B.C. Canada
Posts: 473
Default

You are making my day. Keep the Kilijs coming!!!

Jeff
Jeff D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2005, 06:20 PM   #6
Conogre
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Clearwater, Florida
Posts: 371
Default

Simply beautiful.....as always, I came to a screeching halt when I hit the "gigantic two-handed dagger".
Maybe it's a genetic quirk? **grin**
Again, wonderful photos of some magnificent pieces, thank you.
Conogre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2005, 07:00 PM   #7
erlikhan
Member
 
erlikhan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 446
Default

Yeahh.Kilijsss. then some more 4 u
1- 18th cent.
2- hmm. shashkilij or kilijka? 19th c. Caucasus
3- 19th.c Turkish
4- Zulfikar. 16th c.. pay attention to its pommel
Attached Images
    

Last edited by erlikhan : 17th February 2005 at 07:21 PM.
erlikhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2005, 12:23 AM   #8
Federico
Member
 
Federico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Posts: 312
Default

Awesome pics, simply awesome.
Federico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2005, 08:30 AM   #9
rasdan
Member
 
rasdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 330
Default

It would be nice if we have a drolling smiley, coz i need one right now. Greaaaaat pics!!!
rasdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2005, 11:37 PM   #10
zelbone
Member
 
zelbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO
Posts: 169
Default

Erlikhan, wonderful photos!!! I always wanted to see what Janissary armour looked like after reading about them and watching a television program on the History Channel about the Janissary. The kilijs are wonderful. Thanks for sharing!
zelbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2005, 12:45 AM   #11
erlikhan
Member
 
erlikhan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 446
Default

Everybody, thanks for your interest. Then some more.
1- Balkans. 18-19 th c.
2- Balkans
3- Yataghans
4- Kilij. Iran
5-Daggers. Turkish. 19th c.
6- Dagger close view
7-Mameluke. 15th c.

8 - Iran. 16th c.
9- I didn't forget keris fans . there is a modest collection of 10-15 pcs in the museum
10- Kerises 18-19th c
11- Morocco. 19th c
12- Mameluke. 14th c.

13- Russian. 19 th c.
14- Few from European collection. 17th c.
15- Hungarian. 19th c.
16- Says "double handed epee". Means "human hand"? More than 2 mts in length!!. 16th c. German
Will continue..
Attached Images
            

Last edited by erlikhan : 20th February 2005 at 12:29 PM.
erlikhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th February 2005, 12:51 AM   #12
erlikhan
Member
 
erlikhan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 446
Default

And more..
Attached Images
    
erlikhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2011, 03:38 PM   #13
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,025
Send a message via MSN to Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by erlikhan
And more..



Salaams All ~ sorry for the double entry here ...eek cant delete this one... please see below for correct letter. Ibrahiim
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2011, 03:41 PM   #14
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,025
Send a message via MSN to Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by erlikhan
And more..



Salaams All ~ Whilst down in the basement I happened to dig up this very interesting thread which is well worth having a look at... In these pictures is what I believe to be the influence to straight Old Omani Battle Swords "Sayf." Originally the photo shows an Abaasid weapon #11 foto 11 and below that a long handled sword with no quillons but a big cuff that was also Abaasid #11 foto 12 but passed down the centuries to become a Saudia/Yemeni weapon (with a remarkably similar hilt to the Old Omani Batttle Sword.. It is not beyond reason that these two swords both influenced the Old Omani design. Regards Ibrahiim.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2011, 12:28 AM   #15
Michael Blalock
Member
 
Michael Blalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: dc
Posts: 267
Default

Ibrahiim, Thanks for bringing this back. I did not see this when it was first posted. Beautiful swords. Yes, the Mamluke swords look very much to be the foundation of the south arabian straight sword. I think the sword in photo 12 with the spade end is an example of the south arabian sword we have seen in the Yemeni museum, Riyadh and I think you have one.
Michael Blalock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2011, 07:17 AM   #16
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,025
Send a message via MSN to Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Blalock
Ibrahiim, Thanks for bringing this back. I did not see this when it was first posted. Beautiful swords. Yes, the Mamluke swords look very much to be the foundation of the south arabian straight sword. I think the sword in photo 12 with the spade end is an example of the south arabian sword we have seen in the Yemeni museum, Riyadh and I think you have one.


Salaams Michael Blalock,
Mamluk Weapons. The point being that they got many designs from the Abaasids. The Abaasids may well have taken the design from the previous dynasty (Umayyad) however since the Abaasid were infatuated with "The Greeks" who knows?.... probably both influences. Certainly the whole lot influeced the Ottomans... so we see tantalising likenesses in the Topkapi etc.

On the subject of the spatulate tip sword like your museum photos yes there is part of the link. It is possible that it may have influenced the Old Omani Sayf insofar as hilt design (however more squat in size on the Omani since the blade is short) and that the other blades shown here in this thread which are almost exact copies of the Abaasid/Umayyid are linked to the Old Omani Sword.

I have to say however that no early spatulate tip Omani Sword was ever discovered. It is a peculiar twist since spatulates suddenly reappear in possibly the 18th C though I am personally not at all yet convinced about their provenance thus the TVV thread Kattara For Comments in which we continue to meander..

Where I think the Mamluke re appears in the Red Sea is exactly where you portay them i.e. Saudia and possibly a spill over to the Yemen.

What a gem it was to run into this as I was sweeping through the early threads... plodging about in the basement.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2012, 07:41 PM   #17
Martin Lubojacky
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 662
Default

Erlikhan - I will say it simply: "THANK YOU !!!"
Martin Lubojacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2012, 08:03 PM   #18
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 6,455
Default

Thank you for the intersting pictures!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2012, 09:15 PM   #19
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,668
Thumbs up Why We Upload

Photos all still here after seven years !
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st February 2013, 02:31 PM   #20
ALEX
Member
 
ALEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 850
Default

Some of my pictures from the visit to Askeri Musei last year.
Attached Images
            
ALEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st February 2013, 02:32 PM   #21
ALEX
Member
 
ALEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 850
Default

a few more...
Attached Images
          
ALEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st February 2013, 04:26 PM   #22
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,587
Default

Thanks so much for your time and effort in the pics. I visited this museum this past summer and was just mesmerized. I was, however, a little concerned over the upkeep and care of the some of the pieces.

The museum did not appear interested in revealing wootz steel at all, but instead kept them in their "as found" condition.

There are some superb wootz blades hidden in those pics....

Thanks again!
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st February 2013, 04:42 PM   #23
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 4,230
Default

The same is true about blades in the Turkish Chamber in Dresden and in the Wallace.
My guess the conservators :
1. Wanted to keep them in the "as found" condition ( as sugested by Charles)
2. Did not want to subject them to acid etching, ie corrosion.
Academically correct, but esthetically disappointing.
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st February 2013, 06:10 PM   #24
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,025
Send a message via MSN to Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Default

Salaams and thanks for bringing up this brillant thread... The picture at #11 is absolutely relevant to the sword under scrutiny presently and I had forgotten that I already had posted with Michael Blalock on this sighting...Currently we are puzzling over the weapon as being Yemeni etc.

see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/newre...uote=1&p=152299 Scroll down 12 pictures(final picture) and see 3rd from right sword.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 1st February 2013 at 06:26 PM.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd February 2013, 06:58 AM   #25
T. Koch
Member
 
T. Koch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mother North
Posts: 185
Default

Thank you Erlikhan, if you are ever still around!

I think my heart just broke from seeing too many awesome kilic with too many great yelmans... Also I like the keris and especially the rencong in #11 is drool'a'licious!


- Thor
T. Koch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd February 2013, 07:39 PM   #26
Richard G
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 221
Default

Interesting to see the daggers in post #11, no 5 described as Turkish?
Regards
Richard
Richard G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2013, 03:23 PM   #27
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,025
Send a message via MSN to Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Salaams Michael Blalock,
Mamluk Weapons. The point being that they got many designs from the Abaasids. The Abaasids may well have taken the design from the previous dynasty (Umayyad) however since the Abaasid were infatuated with "The Greeks" who knows?.... probably both influences. Certainly the whole lot influeced the Ottomans... so we see tantalising likenesses in the Topkapi etc.

On the subject of the spatulate tip sword like your museum photos yes there is part of the link. It is possible that it may have influenced the Old Omani Sayf insofar as hilt design (however more squat in size on the Omani since the blade is short) and that the other blades shown here in this thread which are almost exact copies of the Abaasid/Umayyid are linked to the Old Omani Sword.

I have to say however that no early spatulate tip Omani Sword was ever discovered. It is a peculiar twist since spatulates suddenly reappear in possibly the 18th C though I am personally not at all yet convinced about their provenance thus the TVV thread Kattara For Comments in which we continue to meander..

Where I think the Mamluke re appears in the Red Sea is exactly where you portay them i.e. Saudia and possibly a spill over to the Yemen.

What a gem it was to run into this as I was sweeping through the early threads... plodging about in the basement.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.



Salaams all Note to Forum . In the attached post I made reference to early spatulate tip not being found on Omani swords. This was not correct since Omani Battle Swords were in fact round spatulate tipped... a fact brought out on Kattara for comments after a lengthly debate. # 314 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10455 and comparing it with the Abassiid.

Currently the situation is in some interesting territory since it is realised how the museum sword in this thread # 11 (last picture), is virtually the same hilt as the sword at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16205 and is so like the Omani Battle Sword and the Mamluke sister to it in # 11 (second from last picture). (Shown below.)

It may also transpire that the influence which brought the Omani Straight Sayf dancing sword and curved Kattara hilt and blade form is staring right at us.

Further - that the sword held by the man (shown below) is a similar blade to the museum blade and clearly Mamluke and that the Sword in the Wallace is connected in what I would describe as a Royal or Sheikhs style being very ornate.. sporting a German blade with added Islamic script and a magnificent scabbard.

It is interesting also that we almost stumbled upon this series of linkages already but that it was overlooked and has only just surfaced because of Swedegreens thread and follow up questions by Khanjar 1. The goal, however, is scored by Forum and a big breakthrough surely ensues.

Indeed the entire prospect of a redrawn hypothsis is on the table linking Abbasiid, Mamluke, Ottoman, Yemeni and Omani sword styles down the ages.

The prospect is very exciting.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
Attached Images
         

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 4th February 2013 at 05:19 PM.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2013, 05:17 PM   #28
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,025
Send a message via MSN to Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by erlikhan
You like edged weapons? Ok here they are. More than you can watch and i can upload at once. From Military Museum in Istanbul. Around 80 pics taken by me. I will continue the series when i have time. Keep visiting periodically



Salaams Erlikhan ~ Shukran ... Your excellent pictures have inspired a new look at the Red Sea influence on Yemeni and Omani Ethnographic Arms..Kind regards.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:07 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.