Balinese Wedung

Rick · 28th September 2005, 12:07 AM

A Wedung is a 'Javanese' cultural artifact .

nechesh · 28th September 2005, 03:40 AM

I know you all know just how much i hate making controversial statements

but if you ask me, books, especially those written by Westerners on the subject of Indonesian weapons, aren't worth squat when it comes to the proper naming of the various weapons in question. Add to that the great variance of names applied to these weapons by the many different groups of people who use(d) them and live in this area of the world and we are left with MUCH confusion. I'm with Marto. I'd call it a Balinese knife.

There are certainly MANY errors in the writings of Stone, Raffles, Tammens and others. This does not make their works useless by far, but i think it is important that we take care not to assume that just because it got written down and published that it must be right.

VANDOO · 28th September 2005, 04:15 AM

AHA!! THE DREADED BOWIE WEDUNG FROM BALI

IT IS INTERESTING TO FIND THAT THIS IS A KNIFE ACTUALLY FOUND AND USED LOCALLY, THE SCABBARD AND HANDLE LOOK AS THEY SHOULD BUT THE BLADE JUST DOSEN'T LOOK RIGHT WITH THE FORM. THE BLADE FORM WE THINK OF AS A BOWIE KNIFE BLADE HERE IN THE USA MAY HAVE BEEN AROUND IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD OR IT MAY HAVE BEEN ADOPTED FOR KNIVES IN OTHER COUNTRYS OF THE WORLD IN MORE RECENT TIMES. I FOR ONE DON'T KNOW WHERE IT ORIGINATED UNLESS IT WAS JIM BOWIE AS LEGEND SAYS. THE FORM WAS USED ON QUITE A FEW PHILIPPINE KNIVES I HAVE SEEN BUT ALL WOULD HAVE BEEN AFTER JIM BOWIES TIME SO I THINK THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN INFLUENCED BY AMERICANS.

marto suwignyo · 28th September 2005, 09:59 AM

VVV,

What I understand as a golok is a short , heavy chopping knife, with a blade that has a swelling towards the tip which increases the force of the blow. Something like a khukri would be if it were straight, instead of bent.It is certainly a word that is used in Indonesian, Javanese, and Balinese, but I do not know from which language it originates. I suspect Malay. Personally, I think of a golok more as a tool than as a weapon. However, in Solo we refer to a certain type of scabbard and mated handle that we use for tombak, as "stel golok", that is, "golok dress".

I don`t think that people in the western world have bastardised or misapplied the word golok, I rather feel that golok may have already entered the English language, as I have seen some military forces issue tools and weaponry that I seem to recall were described as "golok form" by an officer who had no knowledge of Indonesian or Malay languages.

Henk · 28th September 2005, 04:31 PM

Marto,

I didn't say anybody you spoke was wrong. I just bring up what I found in Stone and what a member of Tammens studygroup told me. In this case the knife was adressed as a balinese golok.

But I understand just a ceremonial balinese knife is better?

Ian · 28th September 2005, 04:56 PM

Guys:

I think we are in a tough area when it comes to common nomenclature for the knives/swords of cultures and areas of the world with which we have little direct experience. And that is probably true for the vast majority of us who post here.

When locals a few miles apart call the same item something different, it is going to be very hard for us to arrive at consensus about a particular name. The original subject of this discussion could certainly be described as a golok by some groups -- it is a heavy bladed chopper, and Stone uses the term for a similar knife -- but probably not in its host culture.

And one of the things that is great about this Forum, we get to hear a diversity of opinions from within and outside the host culture. Thanks to marto suwignyo for giving us the local names that might be applied to this interesting piece. Even so, he gives us a collection of terms that may apply. Which just emphasizes the point that there is usually no one correct answer when it comes to asking "what is it?"

Ian.

marto suwignyo · 28th September 2005, 10:09 PM

Sorry Henk, what threw me was "Justin gave the right answer", which I understood as all my Bali people being wrong.

I don`t have any problem with calling it anything at all, for discussion purposes, provided everybody understands what is being discussed.

For me, the hanging point is the concept of correctness.

Many things can be correct, depending upon the situation.

28th September 2005, 12:07 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	A Wedung is a 'Javanese' cultural artifact .

28th September 2005, 03:40 AM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I know you all know just how much i hate making controversial statements but if you ask me, books, especially those written by Westerners on the subject of Indonesian weapons, aren't worth squat when it comes to the proper naming of the various weapons in question. Add to that the great variance of names applied to these weapons by the many different groups of people who use(d) them and live in this area of the world and we are left with MUCH confusion. I'm with Marto. I'd call it a Balinese knife. There are certainly MANY errors in the writings of Stone, Raffles, Tammens and others. This does not make their works useless by far, but i think it is important that we take care not to assume that just because it got written down and published that it must be right.

28th September 2005, 04:15 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	AHA!! THE DREADED BOWIE WEDUNG FROM BALI IT IS INTERESTING TO FIND THAT THIS IS A KNIFE ACTUALLY FOUND AND USED LOCALLY, THE SCABBARD AND HANDLE LOOK AS THEY SHOULD BUT THE BLADE JUST DOSEN'T LOOK RIGHT WITH THE FORM. THE BLADE FORM WE THINK OF AS A BOWIE KNIFE BLADE HERE IN THE USA MAY HAVE BEEN AROUND IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD OR IT MAY HAVE BEEN ADOPTED FOR KNIVES IN OTHER COUNTRYS OF THE WORLD IN MORE RECENT TIMES. I FOR ONE DON'T KNOW WHERE IT ORIGINATED UNLESS IT WAS JIM BOWIE AS LEGEND SAYS. THE FORM WAS USED ON QUITE A FEW PHILIPPINE KNIVES I HAVE SEEN BUT ALL WOULD HAVE BEEN AFTER JIM BOWIES TIME SO I THINK THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN INFLUENCED BY AMERICANS.

28th September 2005, 09:59 AM	#4
marto suwignyo Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 52	VVV, What I understand as a golok is a short , heavy chopping knife, with a blade that has a swelling towards the tip which increases the force of the blow. Something like a khukri would be if it were straight, instead of bent.It is certainly a word that is used in Indonesian, Javanese, and Balinese, but I do not know from which language it originates. I suspect Malay. Personally, I think of a golok more as a tool than as a weapon. However, in Solo we refer to a certain type of scabbard and mated handle that we use for tombak, as "stel golok", that is, "golok dress". I don`t think that people in the western world have bastardised or misapplied the word golok, I rather feel that golok may have already entered the English language, as I have seen some military forces issue tools and weaponry that I seem to recall were described as "golok form" by an officer who had no knowledge of Indonesian or Malay languages.

28th September 2005, 04:31 PM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Marto, I didn't say anybody you spoke was wrong. I just bring up what I found in Stone and what a member of Tammens studygroup told me. In this case the knife was adressed as a balinese golok. But I understand just a ceremonial balinese knife is better?

28th September 2005, 04:56 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,399	Guys: I think we are in a tough area when it comes to common nomenclature for the knives/swords of cultures and areas of the world with which we have little direct experience. And that is probably true for the vast majority of us who post here. When locals a few miles apart call the same item something different, it is going to be very hard for us to arrive at consensus about a particular name. The original subject of this discussion could certainly be described as a golok by some groups -- it is a heavy bladed chopper, and Stone uses the term for a similar knife -- but probably not in its host culture. And one of the things that is great about this Forum, we get to hear a diversity of opinions from within and outside the host culture. Thanks to marto suwignyo for giving us the local names that might be applied to this interesting piece. Even so, he gives us a collection of terms that may apply. Which just emphasizes the point that there is usually no one correct answer when it comes to asking "what is it?" Ian.

28th September 2005, 10:09 PM	#7
marto suwignyo Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 52	Sorry Henk, what threw me was "Justin gave the right answer", which I understood as all my Bali people being wrong. I don`t have any problem with calling it anything at all, for discussion purposes, provided everybody understands what is being discussed. For me, the hanging point is the concept of correctness. Many things can be correct, depending upon the situation.