Need help on German blade inscription

fernando · 13th January 2013, 05:00 PM

Olá Ibrahiim,
What a coincidence !
I arrived last knight from Lisbon, where i went to swap some pieces with the owner of this sword. When i opened my laptop and read your post, i was precisely realizing that the last word in the inscription might be a terribly stylised misspelled PORTUGAL. This because whilst struggling to take close up pictures of the blade, i kept wondering what the lettering would mean. Not that the pictures help so much as, due to bad conditions, i have done a lousy work.
Whether the whole inscription is in portuguese is something i can not yet figure out; still the three letters CHAN fit better into such language.

.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 13th January 2013, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Olá Ibrahiim,
What a coincidence !
I arrived last knight from Lisbon, where i went to swap some pieces with the owner of this sword. When i opened my laptop and read your post, i was precisely realizing that the last word in the inscription might be a terribly stylised misspelled PORTUGAL. This because whilst struggling to take close up pictures of the blade, i kept wondering what the lettering would mean. Not that the pictures help so much as, due to bad conditions, i have done a lousy work.
Whether the whole inscription is in portuguese is something i can not yet figure out; still the three letters CHAN fit better into such language.

.

Salaams fernando ~ I agree on the PORTUGAL part but CHAN has me puzzled !
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

junker · 14th January 2013, 04:01 PM

Hi,
i`m from germany and i ve no idea.
I thougt of the french word "chevalleger" which is often used in Germany for the light horses regiments.

Dirk

fernando · 14th January 2013, 04:11 PM

Thank you so much for the suggestion Dirk, but the Cheval-Leger version doesn't fit in it.
Besides, that would imply in a Cavalry blade, which is not the case of this narrow small sword example.

fernando · 3rd February 2013, 12:15 PM

I have just acquired this sword.
Within soon i will be in a condition to (try and) take better pictures of the enigmatic inscription.

fernando · 11th February 2013, 03:24 PM

Surely a word started by CHAN didn't make much sense.
Only that the C turned out to be a O and there was another letter before that ... although almost completely faded.
But common sense and a little reasoning made me figure out that this is the name of King Dom João in period German lettering; IOHANES.
On the other side of the blade, also the I for Ihn Solingen is completely faded but, the (only) partialy faded H helped me discern the right phrase.
My only problem is that we had two Kings with the same name within a period close enough to put the doubt on which it was. Although Dom João VI was firstly Regent (his Queen mother was mentally ill) and later King between 1799 and 1826, the period covering this sword model, i am more inclined for prior King Dom João V, who reigned between 1706-1750. As we may see documented, Military Officers, having to purchase the swords by themselves, often used their ancestors blades, both for economical as for sentimental reasons. It is therefore my conviction that this is a XVIII century blade ... until further notice

.

cornelistromp · 11th February 2013, 06:11 PM

Hi Fernando,

it is a smallsword with a shortened rapier blade from the second half of the 17th century, which is used again 100 years later.
there is not Iohanes Portugal engraved (this makes no sense

) but Iohanes Beugel a famous swordsmith from solingen in the second half of the 17thC. his mastermark was a Moors head.

best,
jasper

13th January 2013, 05:00 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Olá Ibrahiim, What a coincidence ! I arrived last knight from Lisbon, where i went to swap some pieces with the owner of this sword. When i opened my laptop and read your post, i was precisely realizing that the last word in the inscription might be a terribly stylised misspelled PORTUGAL. This because whilst struggling to take close up pictures of the blade, i kept wondering what the lettering would mean. Not that the pictures help so much as, due to bad conditions, i have done a lousy work. Whether the whole inscription is in portuguese is something i can not yet figure out; still the three letters CHAN fit better into such language. . Attached Images

11th February 2013, 03:24 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	SOLVED Surely a word started by CHAN didn't make much sense. Only that the C turned out to be a O and there was another letter before that ... although almost completely faded. But common sense and a little reasoning made me figure out that this is the name of King Dom João in period German lettering; IOHANES. On the other side of the blade, also the I for Ihn Solingen is completely faded but, the (only) partialy faded H helped me discern the right phrase. My only problem is that we had two Kings with the same name within a period close enough to put the doubt on which it was. Although Dom João VI was firstly Regent (his Queen mother was mentally ill) and later King between 1799 and 1826, the period covering this sword model, i am more inclined for prior King Dom João V, who reigned between 1706-1750. As we may see documented, Military Officers, having to purchase the swords by themselves, often used their ancestors blades, both for economical as for sentimental reasons. It is therefore my conviction that this is a XVIII century blade ... until further notice . Attached Images

14th January 2013, 04:01 PM	#3
junker Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 140	Hi, i`m from germany and i ve no idea. I thougt of the french word "chevalleger" which is often used in Germany for the light horses regiments. Dirk

14th January 2013, 04:11 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you so much for the suggestion Dirk, but the Cheval-Leger version doesn't fit in it. Besides, that would imply in a Cavalry blade, which is not the case of this narrow small sword example.

3rd February 2013, 12:15 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I have just acquired this sword. Within soon i will be in a condition to (try and) take better pictures of the enigmatic inscription.

11th February 2013, 06:11 PM	#7
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Fernando, it is a smallsword with a shortened rapier blade from the second half of the 17th century, which is used again 100 years later. there is not Iohanes Portugal engraved (this makes no sense ) but Iohanes Beugel a famous swordsmith from solingen in the second half of the 17thC. his mastermark was a Moors head. best, jasper