Medieval shields / paveses / targes

Andi · 12th January 2013, 08:29 PM

Two examples without painting ca 1480

A pavise from the Bararian town Schongau am Lech with Eagle and Bavarian coat of arms ca 1480
http://www.dhm.de/datenbank/dhm.php?...fld_0=AK005372

An other one of the Nuremberg Imhoff family. Shield dated to 15th century, painting dated to 16th century.
http://www.dhm.de/datenbank/dhm.php?...fld_0=AK005373

Deggendorf, Bavaria ca. 1401-1450
http://www.dhm.de/datenbank/dhm.php?...fld_0=AK005374

Andi · 12th January 2013, 08:55 PM

Bern, Switzerland - Bern Historical Museum 13th century depicting the black bear, the symbol of Kanton Bern and the City of Bern.
http://www.lebendige-traditionen.ch/...x.html?lang=en

Battara · 13th January 2013, 04:39 AM

Fascinating shields. So different from Asiatic ones.

Andi · 13th January 2013, 10:31 AM

All this shiels are from the perod of approx. 14th and 15th century. They were designed for battles, and the smaller tournament shields were primarily used for sportive tournaments. Earlier shields and the younger ones have been different due to changes in warfare techniques and armament. This are probably also the reasons for the differences in Asian shields. But I am not an expert in this issue.

I have just started my research in early firearms and defensive weapons of the 14th century half a year ago. Therefore I was very lucky when I discoverd this interesting and nice forum.

Andi · 13th January 2013, 10:55 AM

What I ask myself: What is the thickness of the shields corpus?

Most publications states over all sizes and probaly their weight and probably the type of the wood, but almost no article states the thickness of the shields wooden construction. Some publications are showing chross sectional drawings of shield constructions but most of them did not reproduce the correct thickness of the wood. And an other probelm: In most of the drawins the wooden structures are marked with a wood grain texture (just to display this is wood) but this texture in almost all cases did not reflect the correct orientation of the wood grains within the construction - which woud be a very important information for the construction, its strengthness and for reproductions.

Antique germanic round shields survived in Thjorsberg moor, Schleswig-Holstein, Northern Germany 3rd century or Illerup Ådal, Jytland, Denmark 3rd-5th century had thicknesses of 10 mm or less. On the Thorsbjers shields no signs of organic reinforcement such as a linen or raw hide coating had been discovered and thin bronze decorations and edge reinforcements proofed that no raw hide or linnen was mounted between the bronze decoration and the wood.

Survived wooden frankish/alamannic round shields from the alamannic graveyard Oberflacht, Baden-Württemberg, Germany, 7.th/8th century had a diameter of 81 cm and a thickness of 10 mm in the center and approx. 6 mm on the edge. Here an organic reinforcement with a raw hide or natural gut / bowel was possible but due to their early discovery and conservation in the 19th century no signs were observed.

I have tried to reconst an Alamannic shield of the Oberflacht type. Made from 7 glued laminated spruce wood of 100 in the center and 8 mm on the edge, reinforced with laminated linnen fabric on the back and laminated and sawn on raw hide at the front. The painting was made (not authentically correct) with oil colours and linseed oil - here I should have taken gesso - which I didn't know it that time. The weight of the shield is ca 5 kgs, which I guess is too heav compared to historic originals.
http://www.lentienser.de/index.php/m...ien/rundschild
Unfortunately my site is presently available in German only.

Attached a photo of 2 Thorbjerg shields dated to 3rd chentury on dislpay at Archäologisches Landesmuseum Schloss Gottorf, Schleswig, Germany.

12th January 2013, 08:29 PM	#1
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Two examples without painting ca 1480 A pavise from the Bararian town Schongau am Lech with Eagle and Bavarian coat of arms ca 1480 http://www.dhm.de/datenbank/dhm.php?...fld_0=AK005372 An other one of the Nuremberg Imhoff family. Shield dated to 15th century, painting dated to 16th century. http://www.dhm.de/datenbank/dhm.php?...fld_0=AK005373 Deggendorf, Bavaria ca. 1401-1450 http://www.dhm.de/datenbank/dhm.php?...fld_0=AK005374 Attached Images

12th January 2013, 08:55 PM	#2
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Bern, Switzerland - Bern Historical Museum 13th century depicting the black bear, the symbol of Kanton Bern and the City of Bern. http://www.lebendige-traditionen.ch/...x.html?lang=en Attached Images

13th January 2013, 10:55 AM	#5
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	What I ask myself: What is the thickness of the shields corpus? Most publications states over all sizes and probaly their weight and probably the type of the wood, but almost no article states the thickness of the shields wooden construction. Some publications are showing chross sectional drawings of shield constructions but most of them did not reproduce the correct thickness of the wood. And an other probelm: In most of the drawins the wooden structures are marked with a wood grain texture (just to display this is wood) but this texture in almost all cases did not reflect the correct orientation of the wood grains within the construction - which woud be a very important information for the construction, its strengthness and for reproductions. Antique germanic round shields survived in Thjorsberg moor, Schleswig-Holstein, Northern Germany 3rd century or Illerup Ådal, Jytland, Denmark 3rd-5th century had thicknesses of 10 mm or less. On the Thorsbjers shields no signs of organic reinforcement such as a linen or raw hide coating had been discovered and thin bronze decorations and edge reinforcements proofed that no raw hide or linnen was mounted between the bronze decoration and the wood. Survived wooden frankish/alamannic round shields from the alamannic graveyard Oberflacht, Baden-Württemberg, Germany, 7.th/8th century had a diameter of 81 cm and a thickness of 10 mm in the center and approx. 6 mm on the edge. Here an organic reinforcement with a raw hide or natural gut / bowel was possible but due to their early discovery and conservation in the 19th century no signs were observed. I have tried to reconst an Alamannic shield of the Oberflacht type. Made from 7 glued laminated spruce wood of 100 in the center and 8 mm on the edge, reinforced with laminated linnen fabric on the back and laminated and sawn on raw hide at the front. The painting was made (not authentically correct) with oil colours and linseed oil - here I should have taken gesso - which I didn't know it that time. The weight of the shield is ca 5 kgs, which I guess is too heav compared to historic originals. http://www.lentienser.de/index.php/m...ien/rundschild Unfortunately my site is presently available in German only. Attached a photo of 2 Thorbjerg shields dated to 3rd chentury on dislpay at Archäologisches Landesmuseum Schloss Gottorf, Schleswig, Germany. Attached Images Last edited by Andi; 13th January 2013 at 11:34 AM.

13th January 2013, 04:39 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Fascinating shields. So different from Asiatic ones.

13th January 2013, 10:31 AM	#4
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	All this shiels are from the perod of approx. 14th and 15th century. They were designed for battles, and the smaller tournament shields were primarily used for sportive tournaments. Earlier shields and the younger ones have been different due to changes in warfare techniques and armament. This are probably also the reasons for the differences in Asian shields. But I am not an expert in this issue. I have just started my research in early firearms and defensive weapons of the 14th century half a year ago. Therefore I was very lucky when I discoverd this interesting and nice forum.