Balinese Wedung

Justin · 26th September 2005, 11:51 PM

I saw this one as well,passed on it though,seller wanted crazy shipping,like $44 for the keris he had.

I think this may be more of a golok than a wedung,and Rick may be right about it being mismatched.However it did seem fairly old,maybe its a odd/rare variant.....

nechesh · 27th September 2005, 02:46 AM

Personally, i don't think it would be too easy to determine much of anything from these photographs.

VVV · 27th September 2005, 09:07 AM

Wedung is not the correct term but I have seen it being used in the forum before, as well as the term is used by Holstein, so that's why I used it. Maybe the proper Balinese term is Madik?

In van Z there is a ceremonial knife as reference. Oriental Arms has one as well in their Gallery.

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1812

I have also seen two other knives like this when visiting European collectors.

The reason I asked was to see if anybody else was puzzled by the simple look of it. The carvings seems correct but the sheath and hilt is not painted and the blade seems to be of less quality than the documented ones.
Could it be a Balinese tourist version???

Michael

marto suwignyo · 27th September 2005, 09:46 AM

The names I have been given by Balinese people in possession of, and using this type of knife are :- blakas pengentas, caluk, madik, and arug.

A number of differently shaped knives are used for the same and similar purposes, and I have not been able to get anybody to differentiate in the name used for any of them. Some people will use pengentas, others blakas pengentas, others blakas,others madik, others caluk, others madik, all for the same knife, and for different knives.

Do the dictionary exercise and you`ll find that they have similar meanings in different language levels.

Possibly the "correct" name varies according to current use of the knife and the hierarchical levels of the persons involved in using it and whether they are speaking, being spoken about, or being spoken to.

When we try to give a "correct" name for any Balinese or Javanese item, be it weapon or other than a weapon, we are really attempting to do something that is often almost un-do-able.

I suggest that the use of a term understood by all participants in a discussion is adequate.Wedung if you wish, but my preference would be "Balinese knife".

Incidentally, in my opinion this is a very good example of this type of knife, certainly it is a little more utilitarian than the highly decorated published examples, but these published examples hardly exist outside the covers of books, and they certainly are not common in Bali.

VVV · 27th September 2005, 10:31 AM

Thanks Marto for your feedback!
And also for confirming that this in fact is a proper Balinese knife.
I have so far only seen the highly decorated versions.
Maybe because those where the ones that the Dutch prefered to "bring" with them home in the old days as exotic souvenirs?

Michael

Henk · 27th September 2005, 07:57 PM

Michael,

Justin gave the right answer. It is a balinese golok.
Stone shows a similar piece with a different hilt.

I had the honour to admire and hold one with a polychrome painted sheath and same hilt like this one in the collection of a member of Tammens study group that Tammens mentioned in his books.

marto suwignyo · 27th September 2005, 08:51 PM

Well, Henk, I suppose it is barely possible that all those Balinese people I have spoken to over the years who were using, or who owned one of these knives, were wrong.

Equally, I suppose it is possible that Mr. Stone was right, even though his record demonstrates that he was often, very often, wrong.

26th September 2005, 11:51 PM	#1
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 178	I saw this one as well,passed on it though,seller wanted crazy shipping,like $44 for the keris he had. I think this may be more of a golok than a wedung,and Rick may be right about it being mismatched.However it did seem fairly old,maybe its a odd/rare variant.....

27th September 2005, 02:46 AM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Personally, i don't think it would be too easy to determine much of anything from these photographs.

27th September 2005, 09:07 AM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Wedung is not the correct term but I have seen it being used in the forum before, as well as the term is used by Holstein, so that's why I used it. Maybe the proper Balinese term is Madik? In van Z there is a ceremonial knife as reference. Oriental Arms has one as well in their Gallery. http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1812 I have also seen two other knives like this when visiting European collectors. The reason I asked was to see if anybody else was puzzled by the simple look of it. The carvings seems correct but the sheath and hilt is not painted and the blade seems to be of less quality than the documented ones. Could it be a Balinese tourist version??? Michael

27th September 2005, 09:46 AM	#4
marto suwignyo Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 52	The names I have been given by Balinese people in possession of, and using this type of knife are :- blakas pengentas, caluk, madik, and arug. A number of differently shaped knives are used for the same and similar purposes, and I have not been able to get anybody to differentiate in the name used for any of them. Some people will use pengentas, others blakas pengentas, others blakas,others madik, others caluk, others madik, all for the same knife, and for different knives. Do the dictionary exercise and you`ll find that they have similar meanings in different language levels. Possibly the "correct" name varies according to current use of the knife and the hierarchical levels of the persons involved in using it and whether they are speaking, being spoken about, or being spoken to. When we try to give a "correct" name for any Balinese or Javanese item, be it weapon or other than a weapon, we are really attempting to do something that is often almost un-do-able. I suggest that the use of a term understood by all participants in a discussion is adequate.Wedung if you wish, but my preference would be "Balinese knife". Incidentally, in my opinion this is a very good example of this type of knife, certainly it is a little more utilitarian than the highly decorated published examples, but these published examples hardly exist outside the covers of books, and they certainly are not common in Bali.

27th September 2005, 10:31 AM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Marto for your feedback! And also for confirming that this in fact is a proper Balinese knife. I have so far only seen the highly decorated versions. Maybe because those where the ones that the Dutch prefered to "bring" with them home in the old days as exotic souvenirs? Michael

27th September 2005, 07:57 PM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Michael, Justin gave the right answer. It is a balinese golok. Stone shows a similar piece with a different hilt. I had the honour to admire and hold one with a polychrome painted sheath and same hilt like this one in the collection of a member of Tammens study group that Tammens mentioned in his books.

27th September 2005, 08:51 PM	#7
marto suwignyo Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 52	Well, Henk, I suppose it is barely possible that all those Balinese people I have spoken to over the years who were using, or who owned one of these knives, were wrong. Equally, I suppose it is possible that Mr. Stone was right, even though his record demonstrates that he was often, very often, wrong.