Badik for comment

Sajen · 9th January 2013, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

The blades you show make clear what Alan wrote about the pamor and the core of the blade. notice the way the core follows the blades point on your examples.

What Alan write about the pamor and the core seems very logical and he is most probable correct. My point have been the elongated handle form.

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 9th January 2013, 12:20 AM

Thanks for posting that Detlef.

Yes, this book entry may be some evidence that we're looking at a true Sulawesi origin, but as you are probably aware, this book is not what we could call a particularly reliable source. I don't have it with me at the moment, I lent it to a friend to have a look at, I'd like to see what the text says about this form, if indeed it says anything.

However, its a step in the right direction.

semar · 9th January 2013, 03:15 AM

hello Sajen

I have this book to and I think its nice and give much info
ore we have some other book about bugis ????????????????????????
because some time i wonder what is a good book

A. G. Maisey · 9th January 2013, 04:21 AM

Semar, I'm not prepared to comment in detail in respect of that book, but I suggest you read the text and then form your own opinion.

We can usually get something from most books, and we can certainly gain something from this one. My comment in the previous post reflects the opinions that others have given me, and that just happen to coincide with my own.

semar · 9th January 2013, 08:51 AM

that not what i say I only say that I`m wonder of er is a good book that every body like and will say and agree that is the book that every thing what in the book is correct so I think that never will happen because the person that make the book try to tel what he know and try to shear with people that intresst in it and that it not more ore less for example for you its no nice badik ore no badik for some people its a nice badik so its from wich way you will look bud the and of the story its no Pedang any more that what we know and can see its now a Badik
sorry when I make mistake`s with my engels and i don`t want to insult nobody
some people like to have this i the his collection

regards semar

A. G. Maisey · 9th January 2013, 11:05 AM

Semar, I'll keep this as short and as simple as I can.

At no time have I said that this is not a nice badik.

I have in essence raised two matters in respect of this badik:-

1) is this style of badik of Sulawesi origin ? I did not say it is not from Sulawesi, I said I did not know where it was from but that there seems to be a possibility it is from Jawa.

2) there is a high probability that the blade has been made from a pedang blade.

I made one further comment and that referred to the reliability of a particular book. In respect of the book I have stated an opinion, no more, no less, and I am aware that this opinion is shared by a number of other people.

I have not said it is not a "nice" book.

I have not said it does not contain information.

I have said it falls short of being a reliable source of information. Many other books have exactly the same flaw, but that does not mean that they do not have some value. For example, Edward Frey's little keris book is full of flaws. From the first edition it took me fourteen A4 pages to list them all, most of which disappeared in his second edition. But I still consistently recommend this book to newcomers who want to read about keris. Why? Because in spite of the flaws it also has much in it of value.

In fact, in the matter of keris books I know of only one in which I cannot identify an error. Possibly there are things in it with which I do not agree, but there are no errors that I can find. That book is the one written by Garrett & Bronwen Solyom.

When I write a comment I do try insofar as I am able to write plain English without obscure or implied meanings. It may assist in understanding what I write if the content of my writing is taken at face value.

Sajen · 9th January 2013, 05:47 PM

Hans,

you have given the badik for discussion, so let us dicuss it. Even when the blade is a cut down pedang blade, it is still very nice. This don't need to be a recent alteration. Like Alan write, normally follow the core until the blades point, have a look to your other badik from your collection or to the attached pictures from one of mine.
The other point have been the elongated handle, normally attributed to Java badiks. But maybe can Andi M. Irwan Zulfikar can enlighten us, he is coauthor of the book and as well a member of this forum.

Regards,

Detlef

9th January 2013, 05:47 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	Hans, you have given the badik for discussion, so let us dicuss it. Even when the blade is a cut down pedang blade, it is still very nice. This don't need to be a recent alteration. Like Alan write, normally follow the core until the blades point, have a look to your other badik from your collection or to the attached pictures from one of mine. The other point have been the elongated handle, normally attributed to Java badiks. But maybe can Andi M. Irwan Zulfikar can enlighten us, he is coauthor of the book and as well a member of this forum. Regards, Detlef Attached Images Last edited by Sajen; 9th January 2013 at 05:57 PM.

9th January 2013, 12:20 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Thanks for posting that Detlef. Yes, this book entry may be some evidence that we're looking at a true Sulawesi origin, but as you are probably aware, this book is not what we could call a particularly reliable source. I don't have it with me at the moment, I lent it to a friend to have a look at, I'd like to see what the text says about this form, if indeed it says anything. However, its a step in the right direction.

9th January 2013, 03:15 AM	#3
semar Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 272	hello Sajen I have this book to and I think its nice and give much info ore we have some other book about bugis ???????????????????????? because some time i wonder what is a good book

9th January 2013, 04:21 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Semar, I'm not prepared to comment in detail in respect of that book, but I suggest you read the text and then form your own opinion. We can usually get something from most books, and we can certainly gain something from this one. My comment in the previous post reflects the opinions that others have given me, and that just happen to coincide with my own.

9th January 2013, 08:51 AM	#5
semar Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 272	that not what i say I only say that I`m wonder of er is a good book that every body like and will say and agree that is the book that every thing what in the book is correct so I think that never will happen because the person that make the book try to tel what he know and try to shear with people that intresst in it and that it not more ore less for example for you its no nice badik ore no badik for some people its a nice badik so its from wich way you will look bud the and of the story its no Pedang any more that what we know and can see its now a Badik sorry when I make mistake`s with my engels and i don`t want to insult nobody some people like to have this i the his collection regards semar

9th January 2013, 11:05 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Semar, I'll keep this as short and as simple as I can. At no time have I said that this is not a nice badik. I have in essence raised two matters in respect of this badik:- 1) is this style of badik of Sulawesi origin ? I did not say it is not from Sulawesi, I said I did not know where it was from but that there seems to be a possibility it is from Jawa. 2) there is a high probability that the blade has been made from a pedang blade. I made one further comment and that referred to the reliability of a particular book. In respect of the book I have stated an opinion, no more, no less, and I am aware that this opinion is shared by a number of other people. I have not said it is not a "nice" book. I have not said it does not contain information. I have said it falls short of being a reliable source of information. Many other books have exactly the same flaw, but that does not mean that they do not have some value. For example, Edward Frey's little keris book is full of flaws. From the first edition it took me fourteen A4 pages to list them all, most of which disappeared in his second edition. But I still consistently recommend this book to newcomers who want to read about keris. Why? Because in spite of the flaws it also has much in it of value. In fact, in the matter of keris books I know of only one in which I cannot identify an error. Possibly there are things in it with which I do not agree, but there are no errors that I can find. That book is the one written by Garrett & Bronwen Solyom. When I write a comment I do try insofar as I am able to write plain English without obscure or implied meanings. It may assist in understanding what I write if the content of my writing is taken at face value.