Bedouin Sword for Discussion

[kahnjar1]

Since the original subject of this thread has now well and truely been hijacked, and we now appear to be discussing an entirely different subject I might as well "join the party".
If one bothers to PROPERLY read the linked thread about the Ethiopian bladed Saif, it clearly states that the blade is marked with the letters M K.
A little research reveals that these stand for M.KEVORKOFF & CO who were importers based in Harrar, Ethiopia. Absolutely nothing to do with Luckhouse & Gunter...... (actual spelling is LUCKHAUS & GUNTHER)
Blades for Ethiopia were made in their thousands by Solingen makers but also Wilkinson of London and exported unmounted.
It is reasonable to assume that many of these found their way into the hands of various Tribes and were mounted by them in their own style.
The idea that these were rehilted for the Souks is ridiculous, as anyone with a small amount of knowledge of the history of Arabia will know that at the time these were imported, the then Colonial Powers were all vying for allegence from the various Arab Tribes, and there was continual fighting going on.
In fact Saudia did not even exist at that time, only coming into existance in the 1930s, and it was not until after WW 2 that Arabia was "opened up" and the first "tourists" started to arrive in any numbers.
So lets try to be a little realistic and accept that not every "different" sword was intended for the Souks!!

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams TVV...Your curved sword looks like a "Luckhouse and Gunter" imported German blade for the Ethiopian market configured typically with two full length florally decorated fullers and throat stamps etc. Could well have simply slipped onto the bulk blades market and re hilted for the souks; Saudia or Yemen.

With an Ethiopian hilt it would be superb...and correct.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Since the original subject of this thread has now well and truely been hijacked, and we now appear to be discussing an entirely different subject I might as well "join the party".
If one bothers to PROPERLY read the linked thread about the Ethiopian bladed Saif, it clearly states that the blade is marked with the letters M K.
A little research reveals that these stand for M.KEVORKOFF & CO who were importers based in Harrar, Ethiopia. Absolutely nothing to do with Luckhouse & Gunter...... (actual spelling is LUCKHAUS & GUNTHER)
Blades for Ethiopia were made in their thousands by Solingen makers but also Wilkinson of London and exported unmounted.
It is reasonable to assume that many of these found their way into the hands of various Tribes and were mounted by them in their own style.
The idea that these were rehilted for the Souks is ridiculous, as anyone with a small amount of knowledge of the history of Arabia will know that at the time these were imported, the then Colonial Powers were all vying for allegence from the various Arab Tribes, and there was continual fighting going on.
In fact Saudia did not even exist at that time, only coming into existance in the 1930s, and it was not until after WW 2 that Arabia was "opened up" and the first "tourists" started to arrive in any numbers.
So lets try to be a little realistic and accept that not every "different" sword was intended for the Souks!!

Salaams ...Not quite...I believe MK were the importers of such blades and the insignia denotes where the blade was made ie Luckhause and Gunther factory..Anyway the fact is that those blades are acceptable in Ethiopia.
Of the rest you are probably confused but my advice is to observe firstly the most updated information on Swords and Omani Artefacts which is from the Richardson and Dorr manual ... the classic chapter and verse on Omani antiquity. You are miles out on your guestimate about these Yemani swords as they are pure slight of hand straight down the line tourist items which is a pity as the majority of blades arent at all bad. You should therefor envisage what blades are acceptable in which countries on which hilts...Tourism in Oman was non existant in Oman before 1970. In Oman there is no way these Yemeni/Saudia knock ups are acceptable...eccept as I say as tourist items. I cant be fairer than that.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

What??? You obviously need to carefully re read what I said. No mention was made of Oman or Omani artifacts, but the comments were related to your assumption that most blades which are not mounted to the custom of a particular country, are no more than traps for the tourist.. My point is that until very recent times (your statement of 1970 is about right) tourism as we now know it did not exist in Arabia, so why would swords be "manufactured" to fool non existant tourists?

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams ...Not quite...I believe MK were the importers of such blades and the insignia denotes where the blade was made ie Luckhause and Gunther factory..Anyway the fact is that those blades are acceptable in Ethiopia.
Of the rest you are probably confused but my advice is to observe firstly the most updated information on Swords and Omani Artefacts which is from the Richardson and Dorr manual ... the classic chapter and verse on Omani antiquity. You are miles out on your guestimate about these Yemani swords as they are pure slight of hand straight down the line tourist items which is a pity as the majority of blades arent at all bad. You should therefor envisage what blades are acceptable in which countries on which hilts...Tourism in Oman was non existant in Oman before 1970. In Oman there is no way these Yemeni/Saudia knock ups are acceptable...eccept as I say as tourist items. I cant be fairer than that.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

What??? You obviously need to carefully re read what I said. No mention was made of Oman or Omani artifacts, but the comments were related to your assumption that most blades which are not mounted to the custom of a particular country, are no more than traps for the tourist.. My point is that until very recent times (your statement of 1970 is about right) tourism as we now know it did not exist in Arabia, so why would swords be "manufactured" to fool non existant tourists?

Salaams ~ As far as the date specifics are concerned the Mutrah workshops recall sometime in the late 70s / early 80s as the timeframe for the appearance of the knocked up hilts which they describe as Saudia or Yemeni. My guess that they were done as a result of the exodus of expert Jewish craftsmen is withdrawn (it seemed to fit) but there was a gap of about 20 years since Mutrah didn't free up for tourism until after 1970. The attribution that they were swords initially stripped of rhino hilts then put on the general souk trade routes makes a lot of sense. Either way you have one of them.

You have a tourist sword with what appears to be a Sanaa or Saudia makeshift hilt. The blade isn't at all bad... they pour out of Yemen these days and the best estimate yet is that they were rehilted to take advantage of their original rhino hilts then the blades were tipped onto the souk market for Quwait, Riyad, Muscat and Sharjah etc for tourists. Once the Sanaa merchants realised that here was a perfectly easy way to make a few bucks I think they then went into overdrive and thus a secondary industry has unfolded, consequently, new blades are being presented with such hilts retaining the old ploy that these are "genuine bedouine" ~ its what the tourists want to hear...

My knowledge of this style comes from having seen hundreds in Mutrah, Sharjah and other Souks where you are literally tripping over the things and although the odd one has an interesting blade and stamp and they are also shoved onto Omani longhilts in Muscat the aim is to push these in front of visitors as tourist swords. That's what you have ~ A tourist sword.

Be happy with that or put another hilt on it... Rehilting isn't a sin...It has been done for hundreds of years both on and off the battlefield.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[spiral]

I have read{But sadley cant recall the source} that many Ethiopean swords were imported into Yemen 2 or 3 decades ago to turn the rhino horn sword hilts into Jambiya Handles.

Id guess this could be a factor.

Spiral

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by spiral

I have read{But sadley cant recall the source} that many Ethiopean swords were imported into Yemen 2 or 3 decades ago to turn the rhino horn sword hilts into Jambiya Handles.

Id guess this could be a factor.

Spiral

Salaams Spiral ~Thank you. Your well timed note on the recycling of Rhino hilts from swords to Jambia falls perfectly into line with my estimated and slightly re aligned timescale and is the highly plausible reason for these blades with roughly reworked hilts hitting souks in the region in the late 70s early 80s and until now.
As a matter of interest there is another hilt that may be another back street add on from there(Riyad/Sanaa).. and that is the guardless long cuffed tubular grip with pommel at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...5&page=9&pp=30 #252 top picture refers.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Spiral ~Thank you. Your well timed note on the recycling of Rhino hilts from swords to Jambia falls perfectly into line with my estimated and slightly re aligned timescale and is the highly plausible reason for these blades with roughly reworked hilts hitting souks in the region in the late 70s early 80s and until now.
As a matter of interest there is another hilt that may be another back street add on from there(Riyad/Sanaa).. and that is the guardless long cuffed tubular grip with pommel at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...5&page=9&pp=30 #252 top picture refers.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Note to forum ~ Damage Control... At the reference above please note the style and age of the scabbards which were purchased in about 1960 and probably have not aged much after that...They look like they were made at the same time as the hilts since they are fitted ... especially the last sword to that style of hilt. It is my suggestion based on this but triggered by a question at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16205 that these hilts are specific to that scabbard and sword and that this may be a separate species from the 19th C or before in Saudia Yemen.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi