SWORD FOR DISCUSSION

[Iain]

Interesting discussion for sure.

However I would put in a small reminder/caveat that there is a sizable difference between trade in central Africa and the East African Coast, and the West African coast and the East African coast. See the attached map (1906) of Mandinka speaking peoples and their approximate range. The difference is quite a long ways and quite a lot of different ethnic territory.

Regarding Tippu Tip, he was a ways off as well both south and east. Just to make things clearer - see the attached map of his claimed territory in central Africa and a map showing the location of the Congo river relative to the Niger river.


My understanding of the East African slave trade is that it extended primarily into central Africa, not the western Sahel. After French and British abolition was there an increased demand to move slaves east and did this lead to increased contact with Arab and Swahili slavers and merchants? I am not sure but it's something worth looking into.

Pretty much every source and article I have read regarding trade within Hausaland, Kanem Bornu and the Western Sahel discusses the transport of goods to the north - including slaves. It is important to remember the relative difficulties in transporting slaves over long distances. Attrition was already high within Western Sahel caravans, while local demand in the Hausa and Kanuri kingdoms produced a healthy market while the transatlantic trade was also close and much more profitable than moving slaves eastwards (see "A History of Nigeria" ~ Falola & Heaton). A large number of the slaves going to the North African coast seem to have been women (again, this is based on sources like Barth who saw the caravans first hand as well as even older sources like Ibn Battuta regarding the Mali Empire).

The main question at least for me remains, why would a Mandinka speaking population in West Africa pickup up on an Omani Arab hilt style when the main sphere of Zanzibar slaving operations were not primarily based anywhere near that region. Why this hilt style over the neighboring styles they would have extensive contact with?

If the hilt style transmitted the other way, into Oman via Africa the question remains... why that particular style over the other styles on the East African coast and the many styles in between.

The majority of saber blades in Manding mounts are the result of French colonial activity with transmission from the western coasts - not overland trade via the east and German holdings in East Africa. There is not a particularly large proportion of these blades in the Sudan proper, Kanuri, Hausa or Tuareg areas while in areas with longer French colonial history like Senegal they occur frequently. Although perhaps I misunderstood Ibrahiim's point regarding Dar es Salaam.

There is also still a question of Mandingo hilt attribution. See the attached compilation of Mandingo hilts. All of these are generally attributed to Mandinka speaking peoples - all are different and only two share a resemblance to a kattara.

A lot of questions but important ones I think, I am still completely open minded to the idea that the kattara and these swords are connected and I would be the first to admit some of the visual similarities are striking. But a good vector of transmission either way seems a bit elusive.

Then again maybe I'm just cantankerous, contrary and hard to convince.

All the best,

Iain

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Iain

Interesting discussion for sure.

However I would put in a small reminder/caveat that there is a sizable difference between trade in central Africa and the East African Coast, and the West African coast and the East African coast. See the attached map (1906) of Mandinka speaking peoples and their approximate range. The difference is quite a long ways and quite a lot of different ethnic territory.

Regarding Tippu Tip, he was a ways off as well both south and east. Just to make things clearer - see the attached map of his claimed territory in central Africa and a map showing the location of the Congo river relative to the Niger river.


My understanding of the East African slave trade is that it extended primarily into central Africa, not the western Sahel. After French and British abolition was there an increased demand to move slaves east and did this lead to increased contact with Arab and Swahili slavers and merchants? I am not sure but it's something worth looking into.

Pretty much every source and article I have read regarding trade within Hausaland, Kanem Bornu and the Western Sahel discusses the transport of goods to the north - including slaves. It is important to remember the relative difficulties in transporting slaves over long distances. Attrition was already high within Western Sahel caravans, while local demand in the Hausa and Kanuri kingdoms produced a healthy market while the transatlantic trade was also close and much more profitable than moving slaves eastwards (see "A History of Nigeria" ~ Falola & Heaton). A large number of the slaves going to the North African coast seem to have been women (again, this is based on sources like Barth who saw the caravans first hand as well as even older sources like Ibn Battuta regarding the Mali Empire).

The main question at least for me remains, why would a Mandinka speaking population in West Africa pickup up on an Omani Arab hilt style when the main sphere of Zanzibar slaving operations were not primarily based anywhere near that region. Why this hilt style over the neighboring styles they would have extensive contact with?

If the hilt style transmitted the other way, into Oman via Africa the question remains... why that particular style over the other styles on the East African coast and the many styles in between.

The majority of saber blades in Manding mounts are the result of French colonial activity with transmission from the western coasts - not overland trade via the east and German holdings in East Africa. There is not a particularly large proportion of these blades in the Sudan proper, Kanuri, Hausa or Tuareg areas while in areas with longer French colonial history like Senegal they occur frequently. Although perhaps I misunderstood Ibrahiim's point regarding Dar es Salaam.

There is also still a question of Mandingo hilt attribution. See the attached compilation of Mandingo hilts. All of these are generally attributed to Mandinka speaking peoples - all are different and only two share a resemblance to a kattara.

A lot of questions but important ones I think, I am still completely open minded to the idea that the kattara and these swords are connected and I would be the first to admit some of the visual similarities are striking. But a good vector of transmission either way seems a bit elusive.

Then again maybe I'm just cantankerous, contrary and hard to convince.

All the best,

Iain

Salaams Iain, Brilliant maps ! I must say I didnt realise that the great slaver Tibbu Tip controlled such an enormous central area and apparently unlinked to any particular coast ~ In terms of the sword at #1 I think it wise to be cautious since nothing much can be attributed to its last known location since it could easily have travelled alone and unrelated to the facts on the ground.

(Actually am I right in thinking that we dont have a clue where this one turned up?) Somewhere between lake Victoria and the Indian Ocean(OR THE ATLANTIC?) may well not be accurate enough !!

What I think is interesting is the development timewise of an otherwise unknown structure called a Kattara which is not an Arabic term and which has no apparent specific history as such... or at least we are unable to pinpoint it. It just means a curved style and as you know often gets called a sayf just to confuse the issue.

What seems plausible is the linkup with the long Omani Hilt and my hypothesis is as detailed in my last post in keeping with the influence from the Omani Dancing Straight Sayf... Even now the Omanis will bung a long hilt on most blades curved or straight just by extending the tang and applying a wood core and wrapping in leather...It is odd to the point of weird that no actual records exist about the forming of the Kattara sword.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Iain, Brilliant maps ! I must say I didnt realise that the great slaver Tibbu Tip controlled such an enormous central area and apparently unlinked to any particular coast ~ In terms of the sword at #1 I think it wise to be cautious since nothing much can be attributed to its last known location since it could easily have travelled alone and unrelated to the facts on the ground.

(Actually am I right in thinking that we dont have a clue where this one turned up?) Somewhere between lake Victoria and the Indian Ocean(OR THE ATLANTIC?) may well not be accurate enough !!

Hi Ibrahiim,

Its a sword in Mandinka mounts and therefore there is very little reason if any to think it was collected somewhere else. No matter what the issue of kattaras, the sword that is the subject of this thread is clear in the ethnic group that mounted the blade, including hilt, leatherwork, pommel etc. Suggesting it turned up between lake Victoria and the East African coast is rather extreme extrapolation without a lot of cause.

Cheers,

Iain

[A.alnakkas]

The word Ktr كتر exists in the Arab language and as far as I know it refers to something high or long... sounds fitting.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

The word Ktr كتر exists in the Arab language and as far as I know it refers to something high or long... sounds fitting.

Salaams ~ I researched and did a cross section study on the word (using 25 university students as my sample base of discussion/ search etc... They came up with the word كتر ktr... meaning "knife like" however you may have another angle... My view is that kattara may have come from the English "cutter" not from the arabic... or translated in from an Indian word "Kattar." I think it is an interesting word switch but seems to evade capture precisely ... and like a lot of other derived words is lost in time ... however, perhaps one day a researcher will turn up the reason in some dusty museum document ~
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi Ibrahiim,

Its a sword in Mandinka mounts and therefore there is very little reason if any to think it was collected somewhere else. No matter what the issue of kattaras, the sword that is the subject of this thread is clear in the ethnic group that mounted the blade, including hilt, leatherwork, pommel etc. Suggesting it turned up between lake Victoria and the East African coast is rather extreme extrapolation without a lot of cause.

Cheers,

Iain

Salaams Iain ~ Quite agree... Mendinka.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.