Of Saifs and Sossun Pata

[Dom]

I acquired, there is more than 35 years ago, in the Yemeni souk of Jeddah
an hilt in sterling silver,
exactly same model than the one displayed from Artzi's collection.

on this time the manufacturing art-crafts was still yet in production, I mean, in KSA, at least
these artisans produced this type of article, even with blade and scabbard,
but my personal economy, at this time, didn't allowed me this purchase

since "Gulf war", I listened than most of the Yemeni have being banished from KSA

later, I provided at this hilt, an blade from Afghanistan, and much more later a scabbard
from Damascus, where are, a lot of qualified craftsmen
may be now ... were ...

just in case of ... if someone knows, or has an indication about the blade's stamp,
I will be grateful, if he gives me the information, thanks by anticipation

all the best

à +

Dom

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Dom,
I hope I can be the one to help you a little this time .
On this link you can see a mark a bit like it http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Tulwar
I too have a sword with part of the mark - see attached. I believe mine to be Deccani - no not Tipu, 18th century.
All the best
Jens
Ps. My blade is very heavy, not wootz and definately Indian made. I don't, yet, know what the mark means/symbolizes, but hope to 'meet' it in other connections.

[A.alnakkas]

Thanks for the info Gav its certainly interesting. This means that the Yemenis adopted this sword design from the Indians?

[Jim McDougall]

Dom,
That is a beautiful sa'if! The blade appears to me to be a European trade blade, especially with block ricasso, and the radiused tip blade known as 'hatchet point' on mid to latter 18th century (into 19th somewhat) cavalry sabres.
The mark is one noted as used by Milanese swordsmiths c.1610 (Wallace Coll., Sir James Mann, A613, rapier). The plural term of course suggests it was likely a guild type mark rather than makers mark. The manner which it is stamped at this particular quadrant of the blade at the ricasso resembles similar area for marks apparantly applied to blades on Moroccan/Algerian sa'ifs (nimcha, as shown in Briggs,1965). It would seem these marks were used by merchants receiving blades in Red Sea entrepots, the use of this mark and an incomplete dentated arc ('sickle mark') is not only contrary to European manner, but incongruent with area of blade applied for such marks applied in European centers.

The interpretative copy of this mark seen on Jens' blade which is as noted distinctly Indian, reveals the spurious use of European marks by Indian makers presumably to characterize 'quality' as perceived on earlier trade blades, but perhaps interpreted into a now lost talismanic or symbolic parlance.

The sword blade design is not 'Indian' but a European trade blade design which influenced blades produced there in some degree, as well as even the Persian trade shamshir blades with the well known 'Assad Adullhah' lion in cartouche. These blades reached even Malaysia, and as seen here, Red Sea trade and Arabian entrepots. Yemeni ports received many forms of trade blades in commerce typically carried out by Omani vessels enroute to the East African coast as well as returning from Zanzibar and Somalia. It would seem that materials from the Indian trade were often of course included in the outbound voyages after entering the route via Oman.

All best regards,
Jim

[Dom]

thank you very much indeed Jim and Jens
with your explanations, some tracks are open to me now
all the best

à +

Dom

[Gavin Nugent]

A wonderful and interesting diversion chaps, both interesting swords and I have questions about them too.....but what about the hilt types being the point of discussion? Do you have thoughts?

Gavin