keris bali

purwacarita · 25th September 2005, 10:56 AM

Hi Nechesh. I have my own view, others can have different one. Being different does not mean either is wrong. You can say your weapon as pusaka if you treasure it after its historical properties albeit it does not have any esoteric induced. It will be your pusaka, but when you hand over the keris to other person and he do not appreciate the keris the same way you do, he will not think of the keris as pusaka.

Another example, I should call my pertimi, pusaka. Because of its capability/capacity in the history of the family, ...but saying it pusaka will loosen its core meaning as a blessed keris, pertimi. So I'd rather call it as its property, pertimi.

I'm glad that you still concern about the yoni perspective. I can sense the amplitude of it with my skin, but I could not determine the type. Any suggestions? You seem you could sense it too.

Hi Rick. The insult is when people lie about their keris when they try to sell it in order to fetch higher price. I see the efficacy of stone idea for people not to easily withdraw their keris. I think it'll work for any pecalang. Thank you.

purwacarita · 25th September 2005, 10:58 AM

Inhale......

nechesh · 26th September 2005, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purwacarita

Hi Nechesh. I have my own view, others can have different one. Being different does not mean either is wrong. You can say your weapon as pusaka if you treasure it after its historical properties albeit it does not have any esoteric induced. It will be your pusaka, but when you hand over the keris to other person and he do not appreciate the keris the same way you do, he will not think of the keris as pusaka.

Another example, I should call my pertimi, pusaka. Because of its capability/capacity in the history of the family, ...but saying it pusaka will loosen its core meaning as a blessed keris, pertimi. So I'd rather call it as its property, pertimi.

Purwa, You will find me pretty much in agreement with you in your first paragraph. However, you lose me in the second. I do not see why it isn't possible for your keris to be BOTH pusaka AND pertimi and to call them such, without "loosen(ing) the core meaning as a blessed keris". Both these conditions should be able to co-exist and infact strengthen one another.
The reason you got the response you did when you wrote: "I think that if you see the keris from beauty perspective, you would not care even if it is not originally from places as said. If you see from yoni perspective, you would not care if the keris is either 1 year old or 1000 years old. Just remember that what people say as kadutan, or pusaka, or pertimi, is not because the keris has those properties, but because people see it as such."......is not because i completely disagree with you. I think it is MOST important to find a keris that speaks to you, though it's beauty, yoni (though i still think this is a misuse of the word i understand your meaning

) and inner nature, not because it is this many years old or for that particular island. I obtain a certain keris because it calls to me for what ever reason. BUT....i then still want to know what it's story is as best i can discern. The story is not the reason to get the keris, but trying to work these things out is a big part of what we do here on this form. People here collect keris for MANY different reasons, ALL of them are valid. Some have spiritual connection like you and i. Some do not. Neither should be seen as a superior position. But we all want to know and share as much information about any piece presented here as best we can. In that light, to say that you think we should not care about the age and origins of these keris seems a bit out of place and leave a whole lot less to talk about.

purwacarita · 28th September 2005, 12:16 PM

Hi nechesh. You will find the answer in the classification method. Java seems to have hierarchical classification, where though I'm not speaking to represent Bali view, I put forth classification which ovelaps each other. It means that keris could be BOTH pusaka and pertimi and as well as kadutan. The condition DOES co-exist and in fact strengthen one another as you said. Thus it is up to the owner to choose the way the keris speaks to him. It is in fact reflects how the owner respects the keris.

If it's always told to me that the keris is pusaka, ...I would have probably forget the esoteric properties, as I will be gazed at the history of it in the family. Thus, the calling is shifted, from the calling that represents owner subjective view, to calling that represents keris objective properties. Though it is still subjective, as I must say that the esoteric properties itself that makes it possible to color the history of the family.

In other possibility implication, to see a keris pertimi while it is not, is not something worth to discuss about.

I understand that people will want keris discussed in many perspectives possible including the age and origins of it, in antique/history perspective. I do agree with you though I personally think it will be very hard as keris is most kept and inherited as private belonging. The age is perhaps traceable, but to trace to first origin of the first owner or its family is almost impossible, unless you are somehow very close to a respected family which have the most secret treasured pusaka. Other way you will see only keris traffic, changing hands for how many, you would not imagine. If you really can sense the vibrating energy, you can be 50% sure the keris is old enough, and consider yourself lucky that the perishing energy is still there for you to find out, but that's if some prana master did not recently induce some of his magic to it. But if you can't sense it, I don't know which device is portable enough to carry to determine the age of the target.

~Ing ngarso sing tuladha, ing madya mbangun karsa, tut wuri handayani.

25th September 2005, 10:56 AM	#1
purwacarita Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 54	Hi Nechesh. I have my own view, others can have different one. Being different does not mean either is wrong. You can say your weapon as pusaka if you treasure it after its historical properties albeit it does not have any esoteric induced. It will be your pusaka, but when you hand over the keris to other person and he do not appreciate the keris the same way you do, he will not think of the keris as pusaka. Another example, I should call my pertimi, pusaka. Because of its capability/capacity in the history of the family, ...but saying it pusaka will loosen its core meaning as a blessed keris, pertimi. So I'd rather call it as its property, pertimi. I'm glad that you still concern about the yoni perspective. I can sense the amplitude of it with my skin, but I could not determine the type. Any suggestions? You seem you could sense it too. Hi Rick. The insult is when people lie about their keris when they try to sell it in order to fetch higher price. I see the efficacy of stone idea for people not to easily withdraw their keris. I think it'll work for any pecalang. Thank you.

25th September 2005, 10:58 AM	#2
purwacarita Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 54	Inhale......

28th September 2005, 12:16 PM	#4
purwacarita Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 54	Hi nechesh. You will find the answer in the classification method. Java seems to have hierarchical classification, where though I'm not speaking to represent Bali view, I put forth classification which ovelaps each other. It means that keris could be BOTH pusaka and pertimi and as well as kadutan. The condition DOES co-exist and in fact strengthen one another as you said. Thus it is up to the owner to choose the way the keris speaks to him. It is in fact reflects how the owner respects the keris. If it's always told to me that the keris is pusaka, ...I would have probably forget the esoteric properties, as I will be gazed at the history of it in the family. Thus, the calling is shifted, from the calling that represents owner subjective view, to calling that represents keris objective properties. Though it is still subjective, as I must say that the esoteric properties itself that makes it possible to color the history of the family. In other possibility implication, to see a keris pertimi while it is not, is not something worth to discuss about. I understand that people will want keris discussed in many perspectives possible including the age and origins of it, in antique/history perspective. I do agree with you though I personally think it will be very hard as keris is most kept and inherited as private belonging. The age is perhaps traceable, but to trace to first origin of the first owner or its family is almost impossible, unless you are somehow very close to a respected family which have the most secret treasured pusaka. Other way you will see only keris traffic, changing hands for how many, you would not imagine. If you really can sense the vibrating energy, you can be 50% sure the keris is old enough, and consider yourself lucky that the perishing energy is still there for you to find out, but that's if some prana master did not recently induce some of his magic to it. But if you can't sense it, I don't know which device is portable enough to carry to determine the age of the target. ~Ing ngarso sing tuladha, ing madya mbangun karsa, tut wuri handayani.