Bali Keris

nechesh · 23rd September 2005, 05:02 PM

Something tells me you are incorrect on this one purwacarita. Everything about this keris says Balinese to me.

Rick · 23rd September 2005, 07:14 PM

Purwacarita , having made your statement I guess you will have to provide us doubters with concrete proof .
West Jawa , Bantam perhaps ?
East Jawa , Blambangan maybe ?

IMO Balinese empus were quite capable of producing this quality of work in the 17thC.

nechesh · 23rd September 2005, 08:07 PM

Just to qualify my remarks, i should say that not EVERYTHING about this keris says Bali to be. The warangan, for instance, MAY very well have been applied in Jawa and the newly commissoned sheath COULD have been made by Javanese craftmen in the style of Bali. Certainly the new uwer (mendak) MIGHT very possible be Javanese. BUT, the blade itself IMO is in all PROBABILITY Balinese.

purwacarita · 25th September 2005, 10:53 AM

Hi Rick. I was not saying that Balinese could not make this quality.

I could not provide concrete proof, sorry,

I don't know about empu in Java. Pamor at sor-soran is not 'till the edge, it reads peace keeps the commitment accompanied, ...but the peace ends in the middle of the blade where it should go straight up along the blade so to read properly peace along the way 'till death. The sogokan also ends at sor-soran, yet another sogokan comes from the edge (interference from death?), ...thus I think is work of creativity which does not concern reading of symbolic language in the keris. Though symbols may vary between different communities, ...I had a strange feeling to admit this one as Balinese.

Our empu will struggle to make keris to retain its symbolic meaning to our certain community.

Rick · 25th September 2005, 07:06 PM

Purwacarita , if another sogokan emerges after the end of the first one then might it symbolize rebirth or a second chance , defense from death ?

Boedhi Adhitya · 28th September 2005, 05:01 AM

Hi Mick,
On your pictures, was a measurement on inches or centimeters ? I believe it was in inches (black tick with "1F" would mark 1 foot = 12 inches). Please remind me if i'm wrong.

My old eyes told me, the blade has at least 21 inches long. In centimeter, it would be 21 x 2.54 = 53.34 cm. long. In traditional Java sheath, I must order a custom made, quite long pendok. In Bali sheath, I believe, it would be fit perfectly

. Bali or Java, or even a newly made madura, still I wish I had this blade

best regards,

boedhi adhitya

purwacarita · 28th September 2005, 12:22 PM

Hi Rick. I can hardly tell that. Keris has symbols that meaningful to some communities and meaningless to others. Even at the same community, the same symbol can speak differently because of the message told by the last owner to the next.

~Ing ngarso sing tuladha, ing madya mbangun karsa, tut wuri handayani.

23rd September 2005, 05:02 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Something tells me you are incorrect on this one purwacarita. Everything about this keris says Balinese to me.

23rd September 2005, 07:14 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Purwacarita , having made your statement I guess you will have to provide us doubters with concrete proof . West Jawa , Bantam perhaps ? East Jawa , Blambangan maybe ? IMO Balinese empus were quite capable of producing this quality of work in the 17thC.

23rd September 2005, 08:07 PM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Just to qualify my remarks, i should say that not EVERYTHING about this keris says Bali to be. The warangan, for instance, MAY very well have been applied in Jawa and the newly commissoned sheath COULD have been made by Javanese craftmen in the style of Bali. Certainly the new uwer (mendak) MIGHT very possible be Javanese. BUT, the blade itself IMO is in all PROBABILITY Balinese.

25th September 2005, 10:53 AM	#4
purwacarita Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 54	Hi Rick. I was not saying that Balinese could not make this quality. I could not provide concrete proof, sorry, I don't know about empu in Java. Pamor at sor-soran is not 'till the edge, it reads peace keeps the commitment accompanied, ...but the peace ends in the middle of the blade where it should go straight up along the blade so to read properly peace along the way 'till death. The sogokan also ends at sor-soran, yet another sogokan comes from the edge (interference from death?), ...thus I think is work of creativity which does not concern reading of symbolic language in the keris. Though symbols may vary between different communities, ...I had a strange feeling to admit this one as Balinese. Our empu will struggle to make keris to retain its symbolic meaning to our certain community.

25th September 2005, 07:06 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Purwacarita , if another sogokan emerges after the end of the first one then might it symbolize rebirth or a second chance , defense from death ?

28th September 2005, 05:01 AM	#6
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Hi Mick, On your pictures, was a measurement on inches or centimeters ? I believe it was in inches (black tick with "1F" would mark 1 foot = 12 inches). Please remind me if i'm wrong. My old eyes told me, the blade has at least 21 inches long. In centimeter, it would be 21 x 2.54 = 53.34 cm. long. In traditional Java sheath, I must order a custom made, quite long pendok. In Bali sheath, I believe, it would be fit perfectly . Bali or Java, or even a newly made madura, still I wish I had this blade best regards, boedhi adhitya

28th September 2005, 12:22 PM	#7
purwacarita Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 54	Hi Rick. I can hardly tell that. Keris has symbols that meaningful to some communities and meaningless to others. Even at the same community, the same symbol can speak differently because of the message told by the last owner to the next. ~Ing ngarso sing tuladha, ing madya mbangun karsa, tut wuri handayani.