Need id and translation for a big blunderbuss.

kahnjar1 · 11th December 2012, 12:17 AM

Hi Cerjak,
I assume that there are no marks on either the lock or the barrel? The style of the weapon LOOKS British with added script and raffia barrel bands, but without any proof marks it is guesswork. The hammer looks way too rough for a British piece but it could have been replaced at some stage.
Sorry can't be of more help.
Regards Stuart

asomotif · 11th December 2012, 06:36 AM

Wow ! lovely piece.

There is decoration on top of the barrel. Can you make a better picture of that ? is it inlay ?

Best regards,
Willem

asomotif · 12th December 2012, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

There is decoration on top of the barrel. Can you make a better picture of that ? is it inlay ?
Best regards,
Willem

small reminder. maybe the decoration can indicate a certain origin

asomotif · 15th December 2012, 09:51 PM

I found this talismanic inscription on a website with Aceh swords.
In this case it is part of a peudeung which was also discussed onthis forum once.

http://home.comcast.net/~jtcrosby/Aceh.html

Cerjak · 16th December 2012, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Wow ! lovely piece.

There is decoration on top of the barrel. Can you make a better picture of that ? is it inlay ?

Best regards,
Willem

Dear Willen

Thank you very much for this very interesting link ,I will try to take some beteer pics from the top barrel

Regards
Cerjak

Cerjak · 16th December 2012, 02:59 PM

barrel pics

kai · 16th December 2012, 09:55 PM

The decoration does not look like Aceh IMHO.

I'm with Michael and Maurice and also believe this blunderbuss got modified/utilized in the Banjar/Negara region.

Regards,
Kai

asomotif · 17th December 2012, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

The decoration does not look like Aceh IMHO.

I'm with Michael and Maurice and also believe this blunderbuss got modified/utilized in the Banjar/Negara region.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

The decoration does not look Banjar/negara to me neither.
Does it to you ?

I hope that someone can check the writting and confirm or rule out jawi.

kai · 18th December 2012, 07:20 AM

Hello Willem,

Quote:

The decoration does not look Banjar/negara to me neither.

True - sorry for being terse. The silver inlay motif does look like Straits Chinese influence to me; they had a strong settlement in Banjarmassin and a lot more cultural interchange seems to have taken place there (compared to Aceh).

I can't remember having seen similar notches before though. Any similar examples (from firearms or other implements) throughout Asia?

Regards,
Kai

asomotif · 17th December 2012, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

barrel pics

oops, almost forgot the big WOW

for the decoration.

Envy is turning to a new shade of green here

Best regards,
Willem

mohd · 18th December 2012, 03:52 AM

Hi Willem, got your email.
So sorry for the late reply.
I was moving to Alor Setar some 460 km north of Kuala Lumpur.
I still don't have internet access at home and I have to go to cybercafe instead.

Regarding the translation .. I can't do that because it's a diagrammatical wafaq.
And I'm not trained in that discipline.
Anyhow the second line is called as Wafaq Sulaiman

And the first line .. IMVHO Dom knows the translation better than my broken Arabic

While the third line .. have to look further because I haven't found the similar wafaq .. will take some time because without internet access at home I'm a lot slow you know

Hope this helps a little.

mohd

kai · 18th December 2012, 07:28 AM

Hello Mohd,

Thanks a lot for chiming in while being busy!

Quote:

Regarding the translation .. I can't do that because it's a diagrammatical wafaq.

Is the round inscription from the other side of the stock also a wafaq?

Regards,
Kai

VVV · 18th December 2012, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mohd

(snip)
Anyhow the second line is called as Wafaq Sulaiman

mohd

Mohd,

Please explain how a straight line of symbols (Khatim Sulaiman) can be a wafaq ("magic square")?
Doesn't it have to be several lines, like a square or rectangle?
Or did you mean that the line with the symbols of Raja/Nabi Sulaiman (Solomon) is part of a wafaq?

Michael

Dom · 18th December 2012, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mohd

And the first line .. IMVHO Dom knows the translation better than my broken Arabic

Salam Bro.
thanks for the compliment ... I will forward it to the right person

unfortunately, I will not be available, from this evening (18th Dec.) until end of the week,
we are closing our home in Cairo - Egypt, and we will travel to Paris - France,
re-opening, gardening even if it's winter, collecting the most valuable weapons (for me

) , from here and there
and your story is .... an headache in perspective,

but I've some documentation, about "talismans matter" Islamic and pre-Islamic period, in Paris, may be should be an help

best regards

à +

Dom

asomotif · 19th December 2012, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mohd

Anyhow the second line is called as Wafaq Sulaiman

And the first line .. IMVHO Dom knows the translation better than my broken Arabic

mohd

Thank you Mohd for your kind help.

If I understand it right, these are all wafaq related inscritpions, and not a word Jawi. So the piece might be Atjeh, but there is no direct link to that region. (sorry guys, in the Netherlands we know these weapons mostly from the Aceh war

)

I am posting the pictures of the 2 links you gave for future reference.

Best regards,
Willem

16th December 2012, 02:59 PM	#6
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	barrel pics barrel pics Attached Images

11th December 2012, 12:17 AM	#1
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	Hi Cerjak, I assume that there are no marks on either the lock or the barrel? The style of the weapon LOOKS British with added script and raffia barrel bands, but without any proof marks it is guesswork. The hammer looks way too rough for a British piece but it could have been replaced at some stage. Sorry can't be of more help. Regards Stuart

11th December 2012, 06:36 AM	#2
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	Wow ! lovely piece. There is decoration on top of the barrel. Can you make a better picture of that ? is it inlay ? Best regards, Willem

15th December 2012, 09:51 PM	#4
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	I found this talismanic inscription on a website with Aceh swords. In this case it is part of a peudeung which was also discussed onthis forum once. http://home.comcast.net/~jtcrosby/Aceh.html

16th December 2012, 09:55 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	The decoration does not look like Aceh IMHO. I'm with Michael and Maurice and also believe this blunderbuss got modified/utilized in the Banjar/Negara region. Regards, Kai

18th December 2012, 03:52 AM	#11
mohd Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 41	Hi Willem, got your email. So sorry for the late reply. I was moving to Alor Setar some 460 km north of Kuala Lumpur. I still don't have internet access at home and I have to go to cybercafe instead. Regarding the translation .. I can't do that because it's a diagrammatical wafaq. And I'm not trained in that discipline. Anyhow the second line is called as Wafaq Sulaiman And the first line .. IMVHO Dom knows the translation better than my broken Arabic While the third line .. have to look further because I haven't found the similar wafaq .. will take some time because without internet access at home I'm a lot slow you know Hope this helps a little. mohd