Armour?

Ahriman · 19th September 2005, 03:18 PM

Thank you, very nice pictures! Btw, that mailcoat...

HUGE links... Is it original? It's quite hard to beleive...

What did you search for? I've tried it in countless ways, but I just couldn't find these...

Aqtai · 19th September 2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahriman

Thank you, very nice pictures! Btw, that mailcoat...

HUGE links... Is it original? It's quite hard to beleive...

What did you search for? I've tried it in countless ways, but I just couldn't find these...

They are massive aren't they.

I guess I'll just have to add the Kremlin Armoury to my "List of Museums I must vist one day", it can join the Topkapi Museum, Askeri Muze, Hermitage Museum and Museo Stibbert.

I simply use the "images" option on Google and type in a variety of search terms, usually things like "Turkish armour", "Turkish armor", "Iranian helmets" etc.

Here's an example:
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=...=Search+Images

ham · 19th September 2005, 04:11 PM

Gentlemen,

Coats of the type you are referring to, with very large, flat rings are called BAYDANA in Russian. They were actually worn over another coat of smaller rings. The Mamluks also wore coats of large, flat rings but as a primary, rather than secondary, defense. These generally fell out of use in the Near East in the 15th century, but persisted in Russia until the 17th.

Sincerely,

Ham

Aqtai · 19th September 2005, 04:30 PM

Thanks Ham, I know very little about Russian armour, that is one of the first websites i've seen with relatively detailed photos of Russian armour. I wasn't aware that the mamluks used mail shirts with very large rings, all the Mamluk mail shirts i have seen have normal size rings.

I also found the Russian krugs interesting in that with many of them the plates are not connected by mail like Turco-Iranian krugs, but are attached to some kind of leather liner. It's almost like they are an intermediate stage between mail-and-plate krugs and chahar aina cuirasses.

Ahriman · 19th September 2005, 07:16 PM

Norm of Silk Roads said that the main distinction between turkish and russian krug is that the latter is made with leather straps. So I wasn't suprised on that.

So these were worn on finer mail? Ok, then... I've heard about this, but I've never thought that "large" means THIS large. Only a bet: the mamluks confronted mostly sabres is CQ, did they? Do you have any info about the ring sizes?
Btw, Ham: from where do you have so much information on these subjects? Are there any kind of book on these? Even now, I have a veeeery long wish list on books, but there's never enough.

Oh, and thanks for the input!

Aqtai · 19th September 2005, 08:54 PM

The mamluks confronted a wide variety of enemies. In the 13th century they fought European Crusaders, Mongol hordes and each other. The 14th century was a relatively peaceful period, their main enemies were each other. In the 15th century they fought Timur-i-Lenk, European Crusaders on Cyprus, the Kara-Koyonlu and Ak-Koyunlu (although these were minor skirmishes), in the years 1500-1517 the mamluks fought the Portuguese in the Indian Ocean, with mixed results (they hated naval warfare) and finally the Ottoman Turks with disastrous results.

Battara · 23rd September 2005, 05:22 PM

Ahriman, have been watching this and wanted to answer some earlier questions regarding the Moro armor. Here is a link from Oriental-arms to a Moro armor piece with a closeup on the latches. One end of the latch would go into one of the holes in of the rods on the left and the other would be free to go into the one on the right. Behind the plate is brass that would help hold the piece in place to place the latches in place.

http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1466

19th September 2005, 03:18 PM	#1
Ahriman Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 72	Thank you, very nice pictures! Btw, that mailcoat... HUGE links... Is it original? It's quite hard to beleive... What did you search for? I've tried it in countless ways, but I just couldn't find these...

19th September 2005, 04:11 PM	#3
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Gentlemen, Coats of the type you are referring to, with very large, flat rings are called BAYDANA in Russian. They were actually worn over another coat of smaller rings. The Mamluks also wore coats of large, flat rings but as a primary, rather than secondary, defense. These generally fell out of use in the Near East in the 15th century, but persisted in Russia until the 17th. Sincerely, Ham

19th September 2005, 04:30 PM	#4
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	Thanks Ham, I know very little about Russian armour, that is one of the first websites i've seen with relatively detailed photos of Russian armour. I wasn't aware that the mamluks used mail shirts with very large rings, all the Mamluk mail shirts i have seen have normal size rings. I also found the Russian krugs interesting in that with many of them the plates are not connected by mail like Turco-Iranian krugs, but are attached to some kind of leather liner. It's almost like they are an intermediate stage between mail-and-plate krugs and chahar aina cuirasses.

19th September 2005, 07:16 PM	#5
Ahriman Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 72	Norm of Silk Roads said that the main distinction between turkish and russian krug is that the latter is made with leather straps. So I wasn't suprised on that. So these were worn on finer mail? Ok, then... I've heard about this, but I've never thought that "large" means THIS large. Only a bet: the mamluks confronted mostly sabres is CQ, did they? Do you have any info about the ring sizes? Btw, Ham: from where do you have so much information on these subjects? Are there any kind of book on these? Even now, I have a veeeery long wish list on books, but there's never enough. Oh, and thanks for the input!

19th September 2005, 08:54 PM	#6
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	The mamluks confronted a wide variety of enemies. In the 13th century they fought European Crusaders, Mongol hordes and each other. The 14th century was a relatively peaceful period, their main enemies were each other. In the 15th century they fought Timur-i-Lenk, European Crusaders on Cyprus, the Kara-Koyonlu and Ak-Koyunlu (although these were minor skirmishes), in the years 1500-1517 the mamluks fought the Portuguese in the Indian Ocean, with mixed results (they hated naval warfare) and finally the Ottoman Turks with disastrous results.

23rd September 2005, 05:22 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,325	Ahriman, have been watching this and wanted to answer some earlier questions regarding the Moro armor. Here is a link from Oriental-arms to a Moro armor piece with a closeup on the latches. One end of the latch would go into one of the holes in of the rods on the left and the other would be free to go into the one on the right. Behind the plate is brass that would help hold the piece in place to place the latches in place. http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1466