A Sudanese dagger with a silver coin

Kamil · 30th December 2004, 01:39 PM

Yannis,
nominally the sultans were rulers of Egypt, as well as the whole Empire. Egypt, as its part, has a special, semi-independent status and was ruled by representatives of sultan bearing the title of khedive (not to mention the role of English in that period), but the Egyptian currency was issued in the name of sultans. (The same currency was also used in some periods in the Sudan)

Rather · 30th December 2004, 09:58 PM

Kamil’s statements are right, all coins of Egypt were struck in the name of the Ottoman Sultan till 1914, the beginning of the British Occupation. Nevertheless, it was merely for formal reasons. (They were different from the coins being in circulation in Turkey, they only have the same Tughra, the "seal" of the Sultan on it)
Especially this coin in question does not fit into the traditionally monetary system of the Ottoman Empire, which counted 40 Para to the Quirsh. You see that the Quirsh is now divided into 10 parts and Copper-Nickel is used as a metal for coins. (until that date only pure copper, silver and gold were used) This type of coinage was introduced in the year 1886 AD, definitely under influence of the British, the “de facto rulers”. As far as I remember, they were even struck in Birmingham and put into circulation in Egypt.
Please also remember that the Sultan was till 1924 the Khalif, the spiritual leader of the Moslems. You will find his name even on some coins struck outside the Ottoman Empire, I own for instance a coin from Kashgar, minted 1873 AD with the name of Sultan Abdul Aziz on it, and for sure Kashgar was not a part of the Ottoman Empire.

Flavio · 30th December 2004, 11:04 PM

Thanks to all for the beautiful discussion on this coin/dagger.
The informations given are very interesting and precise.
Thank you very much, guys

Lee · 31st December 2004, 02:26 AM

Here is another example of one of these daggers, dated 1317 AH (= 1899 AD).

Kamil · 31st December 2004, 09:55 AM

A really beautiful piece!
Lee, is it possible to have a better photo of the inscription running across the blade? The one running along it says "al-Khartoum" and the date, so the second can be manufacturer's name? (it looks like that). Is there any inscription carved on the obverse side of the blade?

Lee · 31st December 2004, 08:46 PM

Here are the inscriptions from both sides of the 10.375 inch blade. I have rotated the inscriptions on the forte (hopefully in the correct direction). This is one of the daggers I presented at this year's Ashokan bladesmith's seminar and I believe that it was the object most favored by the knifemakers of the dozen items I showed.

Kamil · 1st January 2005, 07:22 PM

Thank you, Lee, the pictures are great, as is the dagger itself. And the inscriptions are interesting, unfortunately I do not understand well that on the reverse of the forte. Has anyone translated it?

31st December 2004, 02:26 AM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	Here is another example of one of these daggers, dated 1317 AH (= 1899 AD). Attached Images

31st December 2004, 08:46 PM	#6
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	Here are the inscriptions from both sides of the 10.375 inch blade. I have rotated the inscriptions on the forte (hopefully in the correct direction). This is one of the daggers I presented at this year's Ashokan bladesmith's seminar and I believe that it was the object most favored by the knifemakers of the dozen items I showed. Attached Images

30th December 2004, 01:39 PM	#1
Kamil Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Warsaw Posts: 33	Yannis, nominally the sultans were rulers of Egypt, as well as the whole Empire. Egypt, as its part, has a special, semi-independent status and was ruled by representatives of sultan bearing the title of khedive (not to mention the role of English in that period), but the Egyptian currency was issued in the name of sultans. (The same currency was also used in some periods in the Sudan)

30th December 2004, 09:58 PM	#2
Rather Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 72	Kamil’s statements are right, all coins of Egypt were struck in the name of the Ottoman Sultan till 1914, the beginning of the British Occupation. Nevertheless, it was merely for formal reasons. (They were different from the coins being in circulation in Turkey, they only have the same Tughra, the "seal" of the Sultan on it) Especially this coin in question does not fit into the traditionally monetary system of the Ottoman Empire, which counted 40 Para to the Quirsh. You see that the Quirsh is now divided into 10 parts and Copper-Nickel is used as a metal for coins. (until that date only pure copper, silver and gold were used) This type of coinage was introduced in the year 1886 AD, definitely under influence of the British, the “de facto rulers”. As far as I remember, they were even struck in Birmingham and put into circulation in Egypt. Please also remember that the Sultan was till 1924 the Khalif, the spiritual leader of the Moslems. You will find his name even on some coins struck outside the Ottoman Empire, I own for instance a coin from Kashgar, minted 1873 AD with the name of Sultan Abdul Aziz on it, and for sure Kashgar was not a part of the Ottoman Empire.

30th December 2004, 11:04 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thanks to all for the beautiful discussion on this coin/dagger. The informations given are very interesting and precise. Thank you very much, guys

31st December 2004, 09:55 AM	#5
Kamil Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Warsaw Posts: 33	A really beautiful piece! Lee, is it possible to have a better photo of the inscription running across the blade? The one running along it says "al-Khartoum" and the date, so the second can be manufacturer's name? (it looks like that). Is there any inscription carved on the obverse side of the blade?

1st January 2005, 07:22 PM	#7
Kamil Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Warsaw Posts: 33	Thank you, Lee, the pictures are great, as is the dagger itself. And the inscriptions are interesting, unfortunately I do not understand well that on the reverse of the forte. Has anyone translated it?