Origin of this dagger?

Loedjoe · 31st October 2012, 08:51 AM

Thank you all for your comments.

A luju Alas variant would be great, as Sumatra is my main interest, but like Kai I am not sure it is Sumatran/Indonesian - I was so intrigued by the hilt that I could not resist buying it. I had assumed that the hilt was elephant ivory - I shall try to take, and post, more photographs of it in the next few days, which may help identify it for sure. It is 12 cm long, to the bottom of the ferrule (which is pale brass, rather thick and crude, perhaps a later replacement).
The back of the blade is flat, maximum thickness 4.5 mm at the base. The oval depression near the tip, the tadpole-shaped one near the middle, and the two thin ones near the base (just visible in the photo.) are all identical on the other side of the blade - perhaps the oval one, at least, once had a metal inlay?
As for etching - same comment as in the reply to the comments to my other query, lack of knowedge, and nervousness about causing damage.

Loedjoe · 31st October 2012, 01:07 PM

Here are a few more photos. of the hilt

T. Koch · 31st October 2012, 06:14 PM

Wow, those are some impressive pics! As good as it gets without having the piece in hand.

The concentric age cracks visible on the end of the pommel do look mighty like those of elephant ivory.

Try having a really good look at the pommel end in good clear daylight. Does the material have overlapping angular lines like these?:

If so, it's elephant ivory. Those are called Schreger's Lines and only ivory of the proboscidians - elephants, mammoths, mastodons, etc. - show these. If you can't see anything like this, my vote is back on some kind of bone.

Super nice piece regardless! The figural hilt reminds me of the lion/Makara hilt of the Sri Lankan Kastane as discussed over in this very awesome thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14998 - however, I'd be surprised if that was anything but mere coincidence.

Congratulations on the score and may you enjoy it in good health!

Best wishes, - Thor

31st October 2012, 01:07 PM	#2
Loedjoe Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Oxford (UK) Posts: 96	Here are a few more photos. of the hilt Attached Images

31st October 2012, 08:51 AM	#1
Loedjoe Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Oxford (UK) Posts: 96	Thank you all for your comments. A luju Alas variant would be great, as Sumatra is my main interest, but like Kai I am not sure it is Sumatran/Indonesian - I was so intrigued by the hilt that I could not resist buying it. I had assumed that the hilt was elephant ivory - I shall try to take, and post, more photographs of it in the next few days, which may help identify it for sure. It is 12 cm long, to the bottom of the ferrule (which is pale brass, rather thick and crude, perhaps a later replacement). The back of the blade is flat, maximum thickness 4.5 mm at the base. The oval depression near the tip, the tadpole-shaped one near the middle, and the two thin ones near the base (just visible in the photo.) are all identical on the other side of the blade - perhaps the oval one, at least, once had a metal inlay? As for etching - same comment as in the reply to the comments to my other query, lack of knowedge, and nervousness about causing damage.

31st October 2012, 06:14 PM	#3
T. Koch Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Mother North Posts: 189	Wow, those are some impressive pics! As good as it gets without having the piece in hand. The concentric age cracks visible on the end of the pommel do look mighty like those of elephant ivory. Try having a really good look at the pommel end in good clear daylight. Does the material have overlapping angular lines like these?: If so, it's elephant ivory. Those are called Schreger's Lines and only ivory of the proboscidians - elephants, mammoths, mastodons, etc. - show these. If you can't see anything like this, my vote is back on some kind of bone. Super nice piece regardless! The figural hilt reminds me of the lion/Makara hilt of the Sri Lankan Kastane as discussed over in this very awesome thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14998 - however, I'd be surprised if that was anything but mere coincidence. Congratulations on the score and may you enjoy it in good health! Best wishes, - Thor