Gunong

kai · 30th October 2012, 09:24 AM

Hello Robert,

Could you please provide a close-up of the inside of the hilt (hole for the tang)? That's a rare opportunity to have a closer look...

I'd also favor a traditional wood glue. However you'll need extra efforts to prepare a mold/cushion so that you can apply even pressure while the glue sets (a good bonds depends on the pressure but, obviously, you don't want to crush the hilt either); allow for some generous extra time (days) for the glue to set perfectly.

If this seems too much of a hassle, an good epoxy glue will also give an acceptable bond.

The break looks clean enough. Woods with higher amount of natural oils can result in weaker bonds though; you could try to degrease the break surface with acetone.

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 30th October 2012, 07:28 PM

Wood glue for boats is good since it's hardening more fast as normal wood glue. For fixing/pressing you can use wire with underlay tissue of course.

I am very curious to see the dagger when you have finished your work, I am sure it will be a beauty.

Regards,

Detlef

VANDOO · 30th October 2012, 09:20 PM

ONE THING TO REMEMBER WHEN DOING A GLUE JOB LIKE THIS ONE IS TO SWAB OUT INSIDE THE HOLE FOR THE TANG SO EXCESS GLUE DOES NOT DRY AND OBSTRUCT THE TANG LATER. HARD GLUE CAN BE DIFFICULT TO REMOVE ESPECIALLY THE EPOXIE TYPES.

Robert · 31st October 2012, 07:44 AM

Hello everyone and thank you all for the advice on what type of glue to use and the tips on making the repairs.

Kai, I will post the pictures of the inside of the hole in the hilt sometime tomorrow both with and without the broken piece in place and one of the open end where the tang is inserted. If there are any others that you would like just let me know before I get everything glued. I always allow a minimum of 72 hours drying time for any repairs using an adhesive before removing the clamps.

Detlef, The glue that I used to be able to get was marine glue from one of the local boat repair shops but unfortunately it is now out of production and they are using an epoxy glue now. The one that I was using was a water based glue that was not affected by water after it had dried.

Barry, tar just might work if I add a few things to it "like when making cutlers resin" to help make it firm when cooled. As far as Elmer's wood glue goes I used to use it before I started using the marine glue and will more than likely use on this repair. I was hoping that there might be something better on the market that someone has had experience using that might be better.

Thank you all again for your help and advice on this project and I will for the first time take pictures during the entire process.

Regards,
Robert

P.S.
After closer examination of the scabbard it looks as though there are two bands missing. The top of the scabbard shows evidence of a wider band and there is also evidence that there were originally two narrow bands. I was thinking of making the missing top band the same style as the ferrule. What would be everyones thoughts on that?

Robert · 31st October 2012, 10:42 PM

Kai, here are the requested pictures of the hole for the tang. If these are not what you are looking for please let me know.

Regards,
Robert

kai · 1st November 2012, 12:06 AM

Hello Robert,

Quote:

Kai, here are the requested pictures of the hole for the tang.

Thanks!

Can you ascertain what tool was used to drill the hole?

Regards,
Kai

kai · 1st November 2012, 12:09 AM

BTW, I'd opt for the traditional resin recipe: damar is easy to order online, a bit of beeswax, and a filler and you're ready to go...

Sajen · 31st October 2012, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Detlef, The glue that I used to be able to get was marine glue from one of the local boat repair shops but unfortunately it is now out of production and they are using an epoxy glue now. The one that I was using was a water based glue that was not affected by water after it had dried.

Too bad, this wood glue is very good. Think we speak about the same glue.

Regards,

Detlef

31st October 2012, 10:42 PM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Kai, here are the requested pictures of the hole for the tang. If these are not what you are looking for please let me know. Regards, Robert Attached Images

30th October 2012, 09:24 AM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Robert, Could you please provide a close-up of the inside of the hilt (hole for the tang)? That's a rare opportunity to have a closer look... I'd also favor a traditional wood glue. However you'll need extra efforts to prepare a mold/cushion so that you can apply even pressure while the glue sets (a good bonds depends on the pressure but, obviously, you don't want to crush the hilt either); allow for some generous extra time (days) for the glue to set perfectly. If this seems too much of a hassle, an good epoxy glue will also give an acceptable bond. The break looks clean enough. Woods with higher amount of natural oils can result in weaker bonds though; you could try to degrease the break surface with acetone. Regards, Kai

30th October 2012, 07:28 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Wood glue for boats is good since it's hardening more fast as normal wood glue. For fixing/pressing you can use wire with underlay tissue of course. I am very curious to see the dagger when you have finished your work, I am sure it will be a beauty. Regards, Detlef

30th October 2012, 09:20 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ONE THING TO REMEMBER WHEN DOING A GLUE JOB LIKE THIS ONE IS TO SWAB OUT INSIDE THE HOLE FOR THE TANG SO EXCESS GLUE DOES NOT DRY AND OBSTRUCT THE TANG LATER. HARD GLUE CAN BE DIFFICULT TO REMOVE ESPECIALLY THE EPOXIE TYPES.

31st October 2012, 07:44 AM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello everyone and thank you all for the advice on what type of glue to use and the tips on making the repairs. Kai, I will post the pictures of the inside of the hole in the hilt sometime tomorrow both with and without the broken piece in place and one of the open end where the tang is inserted. If there are any others that you would like just let me know before I get everything glued. I always allow a minimum of 72 hours drying time for any repairs using an adhesive before removing the clamps. Detlef, The glue that I used to be able to get was marine glue from one of the local boat repair shops but unfortunately it is now out of production and they are using an epoxy glue now. The one that I was using was a water based glue that was not affected by water after it had dried. Barry, tar just might work if I add a few things to it "like when making cutlers resin" to help make it firm when cooled. As far as Elmer's wood glue goes I used to use it before I started using the marine glue and will more than likely use on this repair. I was hoping that there might be something better on the market that someone has had experience using that might be better. Thank you all again for your help and advice on this project and I will for the first time take pictures during the entire process. Regards, Robert P.S. After closer examination of the scabbard it looks as though there are two bands missing. The top of the scabbard shows evidence of a wider band and there is also evidence that there were originally two narrow bands. I was thinking of making the missing top band the same style as the ferrule. What would be everyones thoughts on that?

1st November 2012, 12:09 AM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	BTW, I'd opt for the traditional resin recipe: damar is easy to order online, a bit of beeswax, and a filler and you're ready to go...