And again a kris!

[VANDOO]

A VERY INTERESTING OLD KRIS. I HAVE OFTEN WONDERED IF SOME OF THESE DESIGNS MAY REPRESENT THE LARGE WHITE FISH EAGLES FOUND THRU-OUT THE REGION. ONE OF YOUR PICTURES SURE LOOKS LIKE AN EAGLE WITH ITS EYE AND NOSTRILS AND A FINE CURVED BEAK.
GIVEN THE IMPORTANCE PLACED ON LARGE BIRDS IN MANY SOCIETYS OVER THE WORLD I DO NOT SEE WHY THIS WOULD NOT APPLY TO THE ENTIRE AREA MALAYSIA, INDONESIA AND THE PHILIPPINES ESPECIALLY IN MORE ANCIENT TIMES. IN THE AMERICAS THE THUNDERBIRD, EAGLE AND RAVEN ARE IMPORTANT IN MANY LEGENDS AND TRIBAL LORE AND CEREMONIES. THE MAORI NO DOUBT HAVE MANY LEGENDS OF THE MOA AND OTHER BIRDS. THE DAYAK HAVE SPECIAL BELIEFS ABOUT THE HORNBILL AND ARGUS PHESANT AND NO DOUBT OTHER BIRDS. VARIOUS BIRDS ARE USED ON MASKS AND CARVEINGS IN AFRICA AND IN NEW GUINEA. MANKIND HAS ALWAYS LIKED TO DECK THEMSELVES OUT IN FEATHERS.
SO JUST TO STIR THE POT I WILL SAY IT REPRESENTS THE LARGE WHITE FISH EAGLE THAT ROAMS FREELY AMONG THE LANDS AND ISLANDS OF THAT PART OF THE WORLD, NOT THE ELEPHANT OR MAKARA
WHILE I AM STIRRING PERHAPS THIS FORM OF HANDLE REPRESENTS A EAGLE HEAD INSTEAD OF THE LOUD AND OFTEN OBNOXIOUS COCATOO WHICH TO MY KNOWLEGE HAS NO PLACE IN TRIBAL FOLKLORE IN THE PHILIPPINES.

[Battara]

You may be onto something Barry. I think that on Maguindanao kris the "eagle" is actually that, not the "elephant" look.

I agree that this is old, but that "eagle" is a form I have not seen much of. So I look at the inlaid okir on the blade, which looks either Maranao or Maguindanao.

[Spunjer]

in Mindanao and Sulu, Barry, it's the chicken. with supernatural power.

[Battara]

So Ron you think this is the sarimanok?


By the way, Detief, you have pm.........

[Spunjer]

not quite sure if it's chicken (sarimanok), or a sarinaga, jose. need to see the whole form... for instance, in this aprticular Maranao kris, we have a sarinaga.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13413
barry made a good point tho, regarding the importance of birds in the old belief. me and lorenz had an interesting discussion regarding this topic. perhaps he can chime in.

INSTEAD OF THE LOUD AND OFTEN OBNOXIOUS COCATOO WHICH TO MY KNOWLEGE HAS NO PLACE IN TRIBAL FOLKLORE IN THE PHILIPPINES.

you nailed this one right on the head, barry!



as far as the eagle tho: the philippines have the monkey eating eagle, or philippine eagle..

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Battara

You may be onto something Barry. I think that on Maguindanao kris the "eagle" is actually that, not the "elephant" look.

I agree that this is old, but that "eagle" is a form I have not seen much of. So I look at the inlaid okir on the blade, which looks either Maranao or Maguindanao.

Hello Jose,

thank you for comment and email! So I am not the only one who have a problem by the "eagle" katik (kembang kacang) area.
Any thoughts about the age from this blade?

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Just noted that i have forgotten to upload one picture from the auction. This picture is very interesting since it seems that the tang is round.
Any thoughts?

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Just noted that i have forgotten to upload one picture from the auction. This picture is very interesting since it seems that the tang is round.
Any thoughts?

That's indeed interesting!
Ps. why are they always turning around the handle the wrong way when it had been loose?

[Atlantia]

Hi Detlef.

I really like the way that the first 'luk' is so close to the ganga. It really makes the 'waves' look more natural and flowing.

I look forward to seeing waht you do with it.
Best
gene

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Detlef.

I really like the way that the first 'luk' is so close to the ganga. It really makes the 'waves' look more natural and flowing.

I look forward to seeing waht you do with it.
Best
gene

Hi Gene,

I think that this is one reason what let me bid. I really can't remember to have seen such a blade before.

I will keep you updated about the progress.

Best regards,

Detlef

[Timo Nieminen]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Ps. why are they always turning around the handle the wrong way when it had been loose?

The ganja is so obviously a hand-guard, and the rest follows. Natural enough, I think, if one doesn't know about these weapons, and doesn't know where to look for information, and doesn't have a feel for the ergonomics, and the handle is unattached. But often I think a handle is removed and turned around; which I have less understanding of. "Here is something I know nothing about, but I know I know more about it than the previous owners, or the ignorant maker"?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Maurice

That's indeed interesting!
Ps. why are they always turning around the handle the wrong way when it had been loose?

Hi Maurice,

yes, I think so. My interest is if it has to do with the age of the blade or the origin.

For the second point I think that Timo give the answer.

Regards,

Detlef

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Sajen

For the second point I think that Timo give the answer.

Regards,

Detlef

Hi Detlef,

Ofcourse, I was only joking as I crossed another recent thread with the handle the wrong way...

Regards,
Maurice

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

A VERY INTERESTING OLD KRIS. I HAVE OFTEN WONDERED IF SOME OF THESE DESIGNS MAY REPRESENT THE LARGE WHITE FISH EAGLES FOUND THRU-OUT THE REGION. ONE OF YOUR PICTURES SURE LOOKS LIKE AN EAGLE WITH ITS EYE AND NOSTRILS AND A FINE CURVED BEAK.

Hello Barry,

interesting observation and thoughts. You mean pic. 9, correct?

Regards,

Detlef