Maranao kris?

Rick · 23rd October 2012, 02:39 AM

It's just the lack of a transitional curve from the leading edge of the Sorsoran area through to the side of the blade that bothers me .
Its aspect is almost planar in nature; something I would not expect to see in a pre-WWII blade .

There must also be good examples extant of post WWII blades too .

David · 23rd October 2012, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

There must also be good examples extant of post WWII blades too .

I believe there are Rick and i think we have seen some of them in this forum. While quality in general has certainly fallen over the years there have always been at least a few good craftsmen around producing quality blades even after WWII.

Sajen · 23rd October 2012, 10:23 PM

Thank you all for your inputs. Agree with you that my dating was a little bit to early. The point Rick stated about the planar leading edge of the sosoran area is a very good one. Let us look what the blade has in summary: a most possible seperate gangya and a well made fret work but with planar leading edge. I have posted in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15589 a kris with a very similar fret work but with rounded edge which was dated from Kai after 1910. So is my uneducated guess that the one in question could be 1920 until 1930.

The very good patina from the handle let guess that this keris was many times handled and I have problems to belive that this would have been feasible by a kris from the time post WWII (again my uneducated guess). The most I have seen here from this time frame seems in my eyes pure dress/show/status kris.

Thank you again for this interesting discussion and I would like when it not ended here since I think we all can learn by this.

Best regards,

Detlef

Battara · 24th October 2012, 01:44 AM

Never thought about the planar issue..........hmm..........will have to look into that.........

kai · 24th October 2012, 08:45 AM

Hello Rick,

Quote:

It's just the lack of a transitional curve from the leading edge of the Sorsoran area through to the side of the blade that bothers me .
Its aspect is almost planar in nature; something I would not expect to see in a pre-WWII blade .

I do see the flat, rather 2-dimensional design at the base of the blade, especially of the elefant's head and associated features. This is seen in some post-"Span-Am war" kris and obviously related to the decrease in workmanship and/or availability of funds by the buyers during and after that war; while this decrease of quality seems to be gradual, there were still quite a few blades of distinctly higher quality produced until 1930 (and arguably continuing up to today).

If the gangya is seperate in Detlef's kris (seems quite possible), I'd also estimate this blade to be from the 1920-1930 period based on the blade alone. I agree with Detlef that the hilt (design, quality, patina) supports an age before WW2. (It should be noted that some kris were regularly handled and used for fighting up to the late 20th c. though.)

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 24th October 2012, 05:40 PM

Thank you Kai for confirming my guess. Soon as I have received the kris I will write here if the gangya is seperate.

Regards,

Detlef

kai · 24th October 2012, 07:16 PM

You're welcome, Detlef!

Please also post pics after staining the blade!

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 24th October 2012, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

You're welcome, Detlef!

Please also post pics after staining the blade!

Regards,
Kai

Will post as well pictures from the restored scabbard!

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 17th November 2012, 01:55 PM

Have received this kris as well. The gangya is indeed seperate and like supposed is the blade very well worked. Unfortunately is the brass inlay detached at one place. The kris is now by my friend for restore the scabbard. Soon as I have it back I will post pictures.

Battara · 17th November 2012, 05:49 PM

2 things:

First - I am glad the the ganga is separate, a good sign.

Second - I have discovered that when it comes to inlay, often the whole length of the inlay would often have to be replaced as well as the grooves re-engraved. I have had to do this in the past when you would think that only a section is all that is needed - wrong!

23rd October 2012, 10:23 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Thank you all for your inputs. Agree with you that my dating was a little bit to early. The point Rick stated about the planar leading edge of the sosoran area is a very good one. Let us look what the blade has in summary: a most possible seperate gangya and a well made fret work but with planar leading edge. I have posted in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15589 a kris with a very similar fret work but with rounded edge which was dated from Kai after 1910. So is my uneducated guess that the one in question could be 1920 until 1930. The very good patina from the handle let guess that this keris was many times handled and I have problems to belive that this would have been feasible by a kris from the time post WWII (again my uneducated guess). The most I have seen here from this time frame seems in my eyes pure dress/show/status kris. Thank you again for this interesting discussion and I would like when it not ended here since I think we all can learn by this. Best regards, Detlef Attached Images

17th November 2012, 01:55 PM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Have received this kris as well. The gangya is indeed seperate and like supposed is the blade very well worked. Unfortunately is the brass inlay detached at one place. The kris is now by my friend for restore the scabbard. Soon as I have it back I will post pictures. Attached Images

23rd October 2012, 02:39 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	It's just the lack of a transitional curve from the leading edge of the Sorsoran area through to the side of the blade that bothers me . Its aspect is almost planar in nature; something I would not expect to see in a pre-WWII blade . There must also be good examples extant of post WWII blades too .

24th October 2012, 01:44 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Never thought about the planar issue..........hmm..........will have to look into that.........

24th October 2012, 05:40 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Thank you Kai for confirming my guess. Soon as I have received the kris I will write here if the gangya is seperate. Regards, Detlef

24th October 2012, 07:16 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	You're welcome, Detlef! Please also post pics after staining the blade! Regards, Kai

17th November 2012, 05:49 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	2 things: First - I am glad the the ganga is separate, a good sign. Second - I have discovered that when it comes to inlay, often the whole length of the inlay would often have to be replaced as well as the grooves re-engraved. I have had to do this in the past when you would think that only a section is all that is needed - wrong!