What is this sword?

Ahriman · 17th September 2005, 05:48 PM

I forgot to add this to my earlier post AND the newer one as well. Moro origin is correct as far as I know, but I'm faaaaar from being an expert.

fearn · 17th September 2005, 05:50 PM

Hi Ian et al.,

Just to start an argument, why couldn't this be a philippine copy of a Chinese Jian? Why does it have to be a copy of anything European?

F

Ahriman · 17th September 2005, 05:55 PM

Even as I'm not Ian... I think that Jians are made with a bit narrower and more paralell blades. I might be wrong.
But the blade looks very much like the ones I posted.

Hm, before I forget: I don't know much of chinese swords, so it was only a guess.

Ian · 17th September 2005, 07:23 PM

Ahriman:

"Huge and heavy" would seem to exclude a jian, which seems to me a relatively light and fast version of the straight-bladed sword. The martial techniques that I have seen demonstrated with the jian emphasized skill and technique rather than brute force, not that skill and technique is irrelevant to heavy weapons also.

I was referring to a medieval broadsword above.

Ian.

Edit: Pictures of my Moro sword below (Commissioned in 1930)

The blade is well forged and the fuller is very even for hand forged work. Note the precision of the fuller and bevels of the edges towards the tip of the blade (second picture). The handle is a dark hardwood (ebony) trimmed with brass. A very solid and well made piece. The blade resembles an Oakeshott Type X (11th C).
OAL = 36.25 inches (92 cm)
Blade = 27 inches (68 cm)
Handle = 9.25 inches (24 cm)

tagalanao · 18th September 2005, 12:32 AM

Thanks for all your comments. I'd say the Moro sword makers, at least those in Tugaya in Lanao del Sur, are capable of copying other swords. On my first visit to Tugaya, my Maranao guide jokingly told me about the complaint of someone from Tugaya ... "What's wrong with this government? They say it's bankrupt, that it has no money. But if we help them make money, they get mad at us!" But it appears they don't do it that much today, coz they're good into the metal craft, and the metal coins have very little value these days.

BobT

Ahriman · 18th September 2005, 12:54 PM

Ian: then I was right, in both things.

Huge and heavy is relative, I mean, I can swing my overweight sword quite fast... it is heavy enough for shearing lighter plate suits, but balanced well enough to wield it single-handedly AND effectively. With a heavier sword, you have to play a more calculating game, use mastercuts and windings, etc.. And, BTW, european swordsman, especially in the german school doesn't really utilize blocks or parries, they mostly rely on the mentioned mastercuts - it means that your attack itself defends you. E.g., in a zwerchau, which I use mostly against cuts coming from above or from the right, you cut with the back edge, from your right, with your right thumb on the side of the hilt, while you step forward and to the right. This'll hit the head-face of the attacker while your quillon and ricasso stops his blade. Even if you miss, your left elbow still remains bended, from where you can deliver a thurst to the face, or, as his blade is on your quillon/ricasso, you can wrench his blade from his grip, leaving him unarmed and you ready for an inverse zornhau.

Sorry for this, but I like defending heavy swords.

And especially sorry if you all knew this before now.

Your sword is even nicer to my eyes, especially as I love long hilts, makes them even more deadly.

17th September 2005, 07:23 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,399	Ahriman: "Huge and heavy" would seem to exclude a jian, which seems to me a relatively light and fast version of the straight-bladed sword. The martial techniques that I have seen demonstrated with the jian emphasized skill and technique rather than brute force, not that skill and technique is irrelevant to heavy weapons also. I was referring to a medieval broadsword above. Ian. Edit: Pictures of my Moro sword below (Commissioned in 1930) The blade is well forged and the fuller is very even for hand forged work. Note the precision of the fuller and bevels of the edges towards the tip of the blade (second picture). The handle is a dark hardwood (ebony) trimmed with brass. A very solid and well made piece. The blade resembles an Oakeshott Type X (11th C). OAL = 36.25 inches (92 cm) Blade = 27 inches (68 cm) Handle = 9.25 inches (24 cm) Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 17th September 2005 at 08:44 PM. Reason: Pictures attached of Moro Broadsword

17th September 2005, 05:48 PM	#1
Ahriman Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 72	I forgot to add this to my earlier post AND the newer one as well. Moro origin is correct as far as I know, but I'm faaaaar from being an expert.

17th September 2005, 05:50 PM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Ian et al., Just to start an argument, why couldn't this be a philippine copy of a Chinese Jian? Why does it have to be a copy of anything European? F

17th September 2005, 05:55 PM	#3
Ahriman Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 72	Even as I'm not Ian... I think that Jians are made with a bit narrower and more paralell blades. I might be wrong. But the blade looks very much like the ones I posted. Hm, before I forget: I don't know much of chinese swords, so it was only a guess.

18th September 2005, 12:32 AM	#5
tagalanao Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Lanao, Philippines Posts: 37	Thanks for all your comments. I'd say the Moro sword makers, at least those in Tugaya in Lanao del Sur, are capable of copying other swords. On my first visit to Tugaya, my Maranao guide jokingly told me about the complaint of someone from Tugaya ... "What's wrong with this government? They say it's bankrupt, that it has no money. But if we help them make money, they get mad at us!" But it appears they don't do it that much today, coz they're good into the metal craft, and the metal coins have very little value these days. BobT

18th September 2005, 12:54 PM	#6
Ahriman Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 72	Ian: then I was right, in both things. Huge and heavy is relative, I mean, I can swing my overweight sword quite fast... it is heavy enough for shearing lighter plate suits, but balanced well enough to wield it single-handedly AND effectively. With a heavier sword, you have to play a more calculating game, use mastercuts and windings, etc.. And, BTW, european swordsman, especially in the german school doesn't really utilize blocks or parries, they mostly rely on the mentioned mastercuts - it means that your attack itself defends you. E.g., in a zwerchau, which I use mostly against cuts coming from above or from the right, you cut with the back edge, from your right, with your right thumb on the side of the hilt, while you step forward and to the right. This'll hit the head-face of the attacker while your quillon and ricasso stops his blade. Even if you miss, your left elbow still remains bended, from where you can deliver a thurst to the face, or, as his blade is on your quillon/ricasso, you can wrench his blade from his grip, leaving him unarmed and you ready for an inverse zornhau. Sorry for this, but I like defending heavy swords. And especially sorry if you all knew this before now. Your sword is even nicer to my eyes, especially as I love long hilts, makes them even more deadly.