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#1 | |
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Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
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Salaams Jim, I missed that post entirely ! Your references as always are excellent. I am at complete logaheads with the details for reasons outlined in my previous posts in that the very essence of the Kastane is its Makara hilt.. The authors are wrong in my opinion and have been spun a line or have reached the wrong conclusions. To anyone who thinks I can describe that in less shocking terms believe me I have tried but words fail me... The hilt of the Kastane is from the ancient Makara head not the lion. Further more the modern flag illustrates an English Heraldic Lion not a lion from India or Sri Lanka where the only lion architecture are fitted around urinals. Makara on the other hand adorn all sorts of traditional artifacts including the door archways of temples, battle flags, axe weapons, and water spouts and of course Kastane hilts. The Makara, in Sri Lanka is an ancient historical mythical figure ~ the Lion is not. The written word is the most difficult to correct ... Authors of the past are difficult or impossible to correct~ I believe they are completely wrong about this description but frankly as it effects the questions we have does it matter...I wish it didn't but I'm afraid it does. Trying to get into the time frame of 15/16th century Sri Lanka and to view the construct of a sword hilt which is part of the psche of the Sri Lankans is important... to see if this was a Sri Lankan or invader design or both, when the question hangs over the proceedings; Is it a Lion or Makara hilt? Perhaps the solution is to look at both possibilities ~ maybe the result will be similar? I knew this would run into a brick wall as the idiosyncracies of caste in Sri Lanka have forced the issue and facts have been played with and history has been rewritten but we ought to continue unabated...without emotion and get to the truth. The Makara,for me, is the inspiration behind the Kastane hilt and we are back to the question of when did it appear and who designed it? Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. |
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#2 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
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Hi Ibrahiim.
Thank you for the kind words. It is great to continue working on the history of these fascinating hilts, which have always been held to represent the sinha or lion on the pommel, while the other zoomorphics on quillon and knuckleguard terminals typically are makara. I have always thought that this was because these other creatures, makara in particular, were effectively subordinate in the pantheons and dieties theologically and mythologically. With this being the case, I think the lion had been regally held in Sinhala from early times, and with the early invaders from the subcontinent. Visually, as we know from the constant efforts of ethnologists and archaeologists and all students of worldwide cultures, it is often difficult to identify some of the extremely stylized and interpreted zoological and mythological creatures in material culture. There are of course many examples, but here we focus on most of these pommels, which have a curiously represented ruff around the neck, and while somewhat water creature looking, still I think are lions. The early examples may reveal more once we find examples or more data, but for now I still think lion for the most part. I still wonder if variants could have makara though. All the best, Jim |
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#3 |
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Location: Sri Lanka
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Fernando- thanks for the Portuguese term for Patisthana =Partisana the similarity is striking it is practically the same word. also the use of the term “Lansa” in Sinhala texts for Lance/s establishes the trend well. The spears are never called Lansa in times before the Portuguese; so this is also attributed to the Portuguese. This would provide a strong context to having a Portuguese influence in the name Kasthana; though The origin and design of the sword need to be established outside of the source of its name. I am trying to find references to another term as there was a prince named “Asthana” a similar term. will update on this as it may modify our understanding of the word in question.
Jim- The design of the original “patissa” weapon is not well known except in text references and it is described as a Spear and sometimes as a throwing weapon. Its relation to the Indian “patissa” need to be established. In Sinhala pronunciation the “h” has emphasis hence my spelling it as Kasthana. (Kas-Tha-na). Ibrahiim- Your points on use of Lion, Makara, figures of Palaces and Royal doorways in urinal stones is out of context. These urinal stones were used by the Buddhist priest hood with the idea that the worldly acquisitions, riches and are considered as worthless and ephemeral in the path to achieving Enlightenment. It does not reduce its value in a mundane context. I tend to think that most of your sources originate from the website Karawa.org It is not a reliable source of reference and I hope you would use other sources. And please stop making hasty and unfounded (and erroneous ) remarks and judgments on the Sri Lankan culture and people. Just read the “Mukkara hatana” (The Battle with the Mukkara people- essentially a minor “Hatan Kavya” text circa 1412 -1640AD.) and all your answers are there. It in essence speaks of the Sinhala King Parakramabahu VI summoning of the Karawa Mercenaries from South India to aid in the wars with the Mukkaru enemies in the Puttalam area. An army of 7740 soldiers arrive with 41 officers and service men, the manuscript goes on to describing the war, the provision of gifts including the flags and settlement of the Mercenaries in the coastal districts between Puttalam and Negombo a stretch of coastline North of Colombo. the Arrival of Portuguese, the joining of the Karawa with the Portuguese as Lascarins, the eventual defection of Karawa as they are impressed by the Bravery of the Sinhala King Raja Singhe I and the assistance provided to the King in facilitating the landing of Dutch forces against the Portuguese. All the names of the Karawa leaders who are supposed to have arrived are South Indian and NOT Sinhala including the names marked on the Swords presented by the King. Beyond this the vague assumptions of the link to Kuru (directly in Sri Lanka) or Kshathriya is difficult to sustain in the least. The Primary fighting men in the Sinhala Kingdom came from the Govigama and its precedent castes as they were the larger population as well as being less likely to be converted and support the enemy. But saying that the Caste system or values are far less strict or prejudicial in the Buddhist Sinhala context than the Hindu system. Makara is a common and ancient motif in Sinhala art- and despite being present in the Karawa Banner its use and significance is far wider than that and is in no way restricted to Karawa. All I hope to establish is that 1. Karawa was not of sufficient prominence in the armies of the period to influence the design of the Kasthana which was far widely used. 2. The Use of Makara as a symbol is not limited to Karawa. hence the Karawa clan argument does not arise in the search for Kasthana origin. Also look at my earlier post for evidence from still living traditions of fighting arts who describe the Kasthana hilt as a Lion head. Though I have shared this elsewhere in the forum I shall also include a Kasthana Sword gifted to a chief of the Mukkara clan by King Keerthi Sri Rajasinghe at a place close to Puttalam. This was also presented with three flags of honor: Hanuman Flag, Peacock Flag and the Lion Flag. (Similar to the Karawa being presented with the Ravana Flag, Ira handa (Sun and Moon) Flag[which incidentally is the Hathara Korale Flag-not clear what its relevance is to Karawa] and the Makara Flag. as said in the Mukkara hatana). Karawa was not special in receiving similar honors. As far as I know there were no restrictions in carrying arms in public till time of British repression of Sinhalese in the 19th century. ![]() |
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#4 |
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Location: Sri Lanka
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Sorry missed the attachments...
Flags and Kasthana presented to the Mukkara clan |
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#5 |
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Not to distract from the central thesis of the kastane lion vs Makara, but the lion symbols certainly date back to Ceylon's early history. Here's a thread to the so-called 'maneless lion' coins of the early kindom-
http://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/20...ess-lion-type/ -Mark |
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#6 | |
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Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
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My mind says Makara as the design feature on the hilt of the Kastane. It spews deities all over the hilt. This is illustrated in the many architectural features of temples, flags etc as I have shown. Its not the big floppy headed pussy cat but the vicious Makara looking mythological figure of old. This is of course my opinion. It alters the way I research the subject and others who believe its a cat can look at it through their own prism... who knows maybe the answer will turn out to be the same in the end? Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. |
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#7 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
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My humble appologies, Prasana
![]() As already edited in my previous post, the correct spell in Partasana and not Partisana. This word derives from Italian Partigiana folowed by Castillian Partesana. And talking about correcteness, i would add that it is Lança and not Lansa. The 'ç' having an intense accentuation; it sounds like in 'tassle' and not like in 'easy'. Concerning the Kasthane sword's facet, it is indeed possible to see out there diverse opinions; the extreme one pretending that this sword was put up due to European presence in Ceilão. I still prefer the school that sees in the blade ricasso and in the 'false' lower quillons a Portuguese influence in the already existant type of sword; the same school that states that, at first, the Kastane was an actual combat weapon. But then i must also convey that this source (after a phone call just made) does not face the probability of the term Kastane coming from the portuguese castão; instead more prepaired to consider the term's ethimology originating in the word Katana/Katane, as both swords have a sligtly curved single edgded blade. It is also admitable that the Kastane began loosing its martial utility by the turning of the XVII-XVIII centuries, their purpose becoming a decorated court sword, reaching its 'jewel' status by the XIX-XX century. Attached i post a picture of a Kastane of such late period, a piece of extreme luxury, worthy of a Muhandiram. Its grip, guard and scabbard are in chiseled and sculpted silver. Partially inset with gold chiseled plates.The lion's tongue, mane and eyes are in gold ... these with rubies. In the center of the guard a gold makara. The blade has two punctions (marks). This sword was in auction in Lisbon by 1989 and its estimate sale price was 1 500 000 escudos ... which would correspond to nowadays 15 000 US Dollars. I ignore the price it reached. The other picture shows a more plain example, also auctioned in the same day; this one dated XVI-XVII century, with a combat blade. . Last edited by fernando; 14th October 2012 at 10:39 AM. |
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#8 |
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Salaams~ Note to Forum~ see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makara_(Hindu_mythology)
In the picture below from the above reference is the Cambodian style Makara disgourging another beast similar to the face on some knuckleguards though appearing as it does "swallowing another beast" would normally be referred to as a Kirtimukha. There is a beast commonly seen being disgourged and at my earlier post #14 picture 5,described in some circles as a half crocodile half humanoid figure and the face seen on Knuckleguards would be this ~ unless it was swallowing something ... in which case a Kirtimukha .... The example at #56 picture 1 above looks like the humano -crocodile form "face" and appearing on the knuckleguard. Where the exiting creatures are of the form serpents they are referred to as Nagas. In the case of other Makara being spewed forth they may be viewed at the tail feathers as having peacock feathers... which is the case in many hilts including # 56 above. All deities and monsters are seen in many formats pouring forth from the Makara and even a lion is depicted exiting a Makara mouth( not shown here) but so far as I can see, not the other way around.. The Hilt form therefor cannot be a lion form because lions don't throw out monsters in this way. Makara, however, fits exactly. Both shown below for ease of reference. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 13th October 2012 at 03:52 PM. |
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#9 | |
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Salaams Prasanna Weerakkody Thank you for posting the information which throws more light on the history of Sri Lanka especially the detail of the name "asthana" Your last point is interesting since I believe their was a restriction on carrying arms. Nontheless your points are well received though regarding Quote "And please stop making hasty and unfounded (and erroneous ) remarks and judgments on the Sri Lankan culture and people'. Unquote I will make every effort to report the facts which you may or may not agree with but still ...report them I will. This is a free speaking forum. Naturally as always I shall be the first to identify if I have made a mistake for which to date I can safely say I have not. Here are the twenty reasons which to me indicate that the Makara design was adopted as the Hilt style and since the Makara is also illustrated by all the Kastane Hilts seen so far on this thread and disgorging deities...which lions don't do~ 1. Typically Makara are displayed disgorging other beasts (usually Nagas) e.g. On corner of a lintel on one of the towers surrounding the central pyramid at Bakong, Roluos, Cambodia. 2. Its symbolic representation in the form of a Makara head at the corner of temple roofs is as water element which also functions as a "rainwater spout or gargoyle". It is also seen as water spouts at the source of a springs. The artistic carving in stone is in the form of identical pair of Makaras flanked by two nagas (snake gods) along with a crown of Garuda, which is called the Kirthimukha face. 3. Such depictions are also seen at the entrance of wooden doorways as the top arch and also as a Torana behind Buddha’s images. 4. The Newa art of Nepal uses this depiction extensively. In Newar architecture, its depiction is; "as guardian of gateways, the Makara image appears on the curved prongs of the vast crossed-vajra that encompasses the four gateways of the two-dimensional mandala. Of the three dimensional-mandala this crossed-vajra supports the whole structure of the mandala palace symbolizing the immovable stability of the vajra-ground on which it stands." 5. Makaras are also a characteristic motif of the religious Khmer architecture of the Angkor region of Cambodia which was the capital of the Khmer Empire. 6.They are usually part of the decorative carving on a lintel, tympanum, or wall. 7. Makaras are usually depicted with another symbolic animals, such as a lion, naga or serpent, emerging from its gaping open mouth. 8. Makara are a central design motif in the beautiful lintels of the Roluos group of temples: Preah Ko, Bakong, and Lolei. 9. At Banteay Srei, carvings of Makaras disgorging other monsters were installed on many of the buildings' corners. 10. Makara is seen disgorging a lion-like creature on corner of a lintel on one of the towers) surrounding the central pyramid at Bakong, Roluos, Cambodia. 11. Its symbolic representation in the form of a Makara head at the corner of temple roofs is as water element which also functions as a "rainwater spout or gargoyle". It is also seen as water spouts at the source of a spring. The artistic carving in stone is in the form of identical pair of Makaras flanked by two Nagas (snake gods) along with a crown of Garuda, which is called the kirthimukha face. 12. Such depictions are also seen at the entrance of wooden doorways as the top arch and also as a Torana behind Buddha’s images. 13. Makara (Sanskrit: मकर) is a sea-creature in Hindu mythology. It is generally depicted as half terrestrial animal (in the frontal part in animal forms of elephant or crocodile or stag, or deer) and in hind part as aquatic animal, in the tail part, as a fish tail or also as seal. Sometimes, even a peacock tail is depicted. 14. It is the Vahana (vehicle) of the Ganga - the goddess of river Ganges (Ganga) and the sea god Varuna. 15.It is also the insignia of the love god Kamadeva. Kamadeva is also known as Makaradhvaja (on whose flag a Makara is depicted) . 16.The Makara is the astrological sign of Capricorn, one of the twelve symbols of the Zodiac. 17. It is often portrayed protecting entryways to Hindu and Buddhist temples. 18. It is symbolized in ornaments are also in popular use as wedding gifts for bridal decoration. 19.The Hindu Preserver-god Vishnu is also shown wearing makara-shaped earrings called Makarakundalas. 20.The Sun God Surya and the Mother Goddess Chandi are also sometimes described as being adorned with Makarakundalas. Finally I offer the fact that Makara were used to decorate other weapons including the two spiked axe in an earlier post. In conclusion since the Kastane Hilt is almost always shown as a mythical monster disgorging other deities onto the hilt, knuckleguard and guard/quillon forms I offer the following " The Kastane hilt is steeped in history and takes its obvious monster format from the mythical Makara beast/ Deity of Sri Lankan ancient history, tradition and culture mirroring architectural and other examples outlined from 1 to 20 above." Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 13th October 2012 at 02:55 PM. |
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