"Buginees 'Executioners' Keris" for comment

Sajen · 11th October 2012, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Same-o with the selut which Detlef attributed to Sumbawa which IMVHO doesn't look close enough to the examples mentioned to ascertain this origin...

Hello Kai,

have a look to this selut/pendokok.

Best,

Detlef

Atlantia · 11th October 2012, 10:20 PM

kai · 12th October 2012, 07:18 AM

Yup, similar indeed.

Did you got your example from Hartadi, Detlef?

The innermost ring in Gene's example is indented while it is kinda raised/granulated (more similar to the outermost ring) in Detelef's example. I won't quibble though until we have more of these with sound provenance.

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 12th October 2012, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Yup, similar indeed.

Did you got your example from Hartadi, Detlef?

The innermost ring in Gene's example is indented while it is kinda raised/granulated (more similar to the outermost ring) in Detelef's example. I won't quibble though until we have more of these with sound provenance.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

yes, my example is from Hartadi.

I have a second similar example which was from Alam Shah identified as well as Sumbawa selut.

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 17th October 2012, 09:57 PM

I've just read an interesting account of Balinese execution in 1633. The Dutch Chief Merchant Jan Oosterwijk witnessed the execution by keris of 22 of the queen's women followers on the occasion of the death of the king, of course these women followers were following their queen who followed her husband. Widows, concubines, servants, other followers routinely followed their lord in death.
In Bali women of royal blood would often jump into the flames without the boon of a keris into the chest beforehand, but the servants and concubines more usually took the keris to the chest first, the more resolute would often thrust it into their own chest.
What Jan Oosterwick describes is this:-

"--- were divested of all their garments , except their sashes; four of the men seizing the victim, two by the arms, which they held extended, two by the feet, the victim standing, the fifth prepared himself for the execution, the whole being done without covering the eyes.
Some of the most courageous demanded the poignard themselves, which they received in the right hand, passing it to the left, after respectfully kissing the weapon. They wounded their right arms, sucked the blood which flowed from the wound, and stained their lips with it, making with the point of the finger a bloody mark on the forehead. Then returning the dagger to their executioners, they received a first stab between the false ribs, and a second, from the same side under the shoulder blade, the weapon being thrust up to the hilt in a slanting direction, towards the heart---"

It is only when we look more closely at the societies where the keris originated that we begin to understand just how closely it was tied to religious practice in its nature and traditional use. When it moved away from its roots in early Jawa, and then in Javanised Bali, it became primarily a weapon with some imperfectly understood social associations, in the other societies which adopted it. In its original context there was no doubt in respect of the sacred nature of the keris.

David · 18th October 2012, 01:37 AM

Wow...very interesting information Alan...

A. G. Maisey · 18th October 2012, 11:19 PM

Further to execution by keris.

In the Ying-yai Sheng-lan, Ma Huan gives a description of the summary execution of thieves in 15th century Jawa. They were stabbed with the keris between the floating ribs and in the small of the back.

The long keris down past the collar-bone is very colourful, and undoubtedly did occur, but in Jawa and Bali a good old-fashioned shiv into the chest seems to have been a lot more popular.

11th October 2012, 10:20 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Attached Images

12th October 2012, 07:18 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Yup, similar indeed. Did you got your example from Hartadi, Detlef? The innermost ring in Gene's example is indented while it is kinda raised/granulated (more similar to the outermost ring) in Detelef's example. I won't quibble though until we have more of these with sound provenance. Regards, Kai

17th October 2012, 09:57 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I've just read an interesting account of Balinese execution in 1633. The Dutch Chief Merchant Jan Oosterwijk witnessed the execution by keris of 22 of the queen's women followers on the occasion of the death of the king, of course these women followers were following their queen who followed her husband. Widows, concubines, servants, other followers routinely followed their lord in death. In Bali women of royal blood would often jump into the flames without the boon of a keris into the chest beforehand, but the servants and concubines more usually took the keris to the chest first, the more resolute would often thrust it into their own chest. What Jan Oosterwick describes is this:- "--- were divested of all their garments , except their sashes; four of the men seizing the victim, two by the arms, which they held extended, two by the feet, the victim standing, the fifth prepared himself for the execution, the whole being done without covering the eyes. Some of the most courageous demanded the poignard themselves, which they received in the right hand, passing it to the left, after respectfully kissing the weapon. They wounded their right arms, sucked the blood which flowed from the wound, and stained their lips with it, making with the point of the finger a bloody mark on the forehead. Then returning the dagger to their executioners, they received a first stab between the false ribs, and a second, from the same side under the shoulder blade, the weapon being thrust up to the hilt in a slanting direction, towards the heart---" It is only when we look more closely at the societies where the keris originated that we begin to understand just how closely it was tied to religious practice in its nature and traditional use. When it moved away from its roots in early Jawa, and then in Javanised Bali, it became primarily a weapon with some imperfectly understood social associations, in the other societies which adopted it. In its original context there was no doubt in respect of the sacred nature of the keris.

18th October 2012, 01:37 AM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Wow...very interesting information Alan...

18th October 2012, 11:19 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Further to execution by keris. In the Ying-yai Sheng-lan, Ma Huan gives a description of the summary execution of thieves in 15th century Jawa. They were stabbed with the keris between the floating ribs and in the small of the back. The long keris down past the collar-bone is very colourful, and undoubtedly did occur, but in Jawa and Bali a good old-fashioned shiv into the chest seems to have been a lot more popular.