Manual del Baratero - A Review

[Robert Gray]

Chris

I found this thread most interesting. It certainly goes against the current
image of the navaja.

From what you say, and you argue your case well, it would seem that there
is no live Spanish tradition of knife fighting. If so, what about other
European countries like Italy, especially its southern regions? After all, it is universally acknowledged that the Latin Europeans have a distinct penchant for knives.

Robert

[Chris Evans]

Hi Robert,

Originally Posted by Robert Gray

Chris

From what you say, and you argue your case well, it would seem that there is no live Spanish tradition of knife fighting. If so, what about other European countries like Italy, especially its southern regions?

First I should declare that as a collector, my focus is on the Spanish `navaja' and the Gaucho' `facon' and its usage in Spain and Latin America. As I have no useful command over languages other than Spanish, I cannot do more than hazard a guess as to what prevails in other European nations. However, I do feel that the situation is unlikely to be very different, for the simple reason that they have all came a long way from the harsh and labour intensive agricultural economies, and the attendant impoverished lifestyle that allowed knives to play such an important role.

BTW: I don't quite know what you mean by living tradition. If you mean the ongoing settling of private disputes with knives, that is dueling, then that went out of fashion a very long time ago - Social changes and modern law enforcement took care of that. If on the other hand you mean that some degree of criminal violence involving knives still takes place amongst the impoverished, as all over the world, then there is a living tradition, though its significance eludes me.

In the closing years of the twentieth century, various knife arts, of Asian and military provenance, have made their appearance in Europe as elsewhere. Also the WMA boom has caught up with Europe and in the wake of the recent enthusiasm for lost European combative arts, there are instructors who claim to have either re-discovered or being the heir to hitherto unknown but ancient and sophisticated knife fighting systems. Given the total absence of historical manuals and schools, it is impossible to validate any of these claims and as far as I am aware, none have demonstrated a credible link to the past.

Discounting intentional fraud, the best that can said for these newly discovered systems is that until their exponents bring forth convincing demonstration of their links to the past, it has to be assumed that what they are offering are re-packaged versions of the aforementioned new arts. This is not to say that they are bad, but that they are not traditional.

In any event, we have to remember that no fighting art can remain immune to the changes brought on by time; Nineteenth century, or earlier popular combative system evolved in regional isolation and in response to the legal, social and combative requirements of the times. Ancient `navaja' or `facon' fighting systems (if there were indeed any) could not possibly find application in settings as radically different as that presented by modern societies, unless so modified as to be unrecognizable - For one, anyone who tried to walk down a street with a large
`navaja' or `facon' tucked in the belt would face immediate arrest for being illegally armed and if the offender's declared intention was to fight a duel, then the mandatory sentence would be greatly increased.

Roughly a year ago this topic was given a good trashing on this forum when someone brought up the subject of Gypsy knife fighting. Have read of it:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002305.html

Cheers
Chris

[Robert Gray]

Chris,

I must say this is one of the best and most informative threads I ever came
across on the subject.

Your argument regarding there being no living Euro traditions makes good
sense. In various places you made references to South America - Are there
living traditions there? If so, is their form anything like found in SE
Asia, say Filipino Arnis, with teachers and schools?

Regards
Robert

[Chris Evans]

Hi Robert,

Thank you for your appreciative words.

There is most certainly an ongoing tradition of solving personal disputes violently in SA. But the methods used to do so are changing even there. Fifty years ago, in the countryside, old fashioned knife duels were commonplace but these days a good deal less. Even so, a search in Google with the phrase "Duelo Criollo" (Creole Duel with knives) will return a large number of hits, some actual reports of fights, old and contemporary, and many literary and musical references to same. All this indicates that the tradition is very much alive, albeit different to what prevailed in the past.

The old Spanish ritualized duel with cape on left arm and long knife in the right has given way to impromptu encounters with shorter knives and guns, although for a number of reasons knives remain the most often used weapon. To a large extent, this reflects not just tradition but also an intractable crime problem, especially in the slums; If one is poor, it is next to impossible to become proficient with guns, which in any event are very expensive items.

As everywhere, Asian and other martial arts have found their way to SA and nowadays there is a huge variety of approaches taken to fighting. Those who are well off take lessons and hardly ever fight and the impoverished masses improvise and fight as they always did.

In all my readings and travels, I never heard of any knife fighting systems or schools in olden times - All the writers who extoll the old traditions are consistent in upholding that apart from some shared generalities, it was all done with courage and the adroitness that comes from working with knives on a daily basis.

Cheers
Chris