Very odd Sudanese sword for discussion

A.alnakkas · 8th October 2012, 08:40 PM

This is a very lovely piece. Imho, it could be similar to Rsword's type but with abit of added creativity? :-) it belonged to the same person so it seems.

Mefidk · 8th October 2012, 09:17 PM

This is the highest res image I can upload directly.
Very interesting sword. The blade seems to have dimensions and shape typical of the kaskara trade blades, but of course the inscription is very interesting. The highly decorated and oddly styled hilt is extremely unusual to say the least. I'm having a little difficulty fitting the inscription and the rich hilt together since richly decorated swords are not a general feature of that era as far as I'm aware - but pretty much anything is possible if it was a gift.
Shame we cannot see the other side. I asked Christies for more pictures, but they never came - maybe they knew I did not have 15,000 GBP to spend

Iain · 8th October 2012, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

This is a very lovely piece. Imho, it could be similar to Rsword's type but with abit of added creativity? :-) it belonged to the same person so it seems.

Hi Lofty,

Could well be another piece out of the Ali Dinar group. It could be something collected earlier than that as well (Dinar died in 1916).

My first thoughts when I saw it were the odd brass hilt kaskara like this one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14711 Which seem to be presentation pieces.

However this item seems to have a very good blade and the brass looks better aged...

It is a bit odd to me the auction had no provenance attached, yet it reached such a price.

The oddest feature to me seems to be the spikes coming off the guard - has anyone seen anything similar?

EDIT: Thanks Chris for the higher resolution image! Very helpful. I had also requested more images from Christies but never received any. I particularly wanted to see the lion mark.

TVV · 8th October 2012, 10:41 PM

Am I the only person who suspects a modern repro viking sword hilt, with the odd spikes added to make the piece look a little more genuine and "africanized"?

Teodor

Timo Nieminen · 8th October 2012, 10:41 PM

My first thought was that it appears to be built from a sword like this one.

(There are some swords like this made in India that are much cheaper than the Del Tin one above.)

Norman McCormick · 8th October 2012, 10:53 PM

Hi,
According to the Christie's catalogue, as I understand it, this item was part of a collection of Arms and Armour that belonged to Heinrich Schliemann. This sword was the last item of weaponry under that title i.e. 'Arms and Armour from the Collection of Heinrich Schliemann, the Discoverer of Troy'. Other items assigned to this collection were also in the same sale.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. From Archeologist to Time Traveller.

Gustav · 8th October 2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timo Nieminen

My first thought was that it appears to be built from a sword like this one.

(There are some swords like this made in India that are much cheaper than the Del Tin one above.)

A very good point.

David R · 8th October 2012, 11:13 PM

Ouch! This does not look good....

A Senefelder · 8th October 2012, 11:20 PM

That certainly looks like the Del Tin hilt dressed up with a few little extra knobs. The decorative motif is identicle.

Lew · 9th October 2012, 03:34 AM

I would say this is a composite sword. The scabbard has thin rings which indicates it was made post 1950 or so. The older scabbards had wide flattened rings. Looks like someone copied a Viking hilt and added some extra tidbits

.

8th October 2012, 09:17 PM	#2
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	This is the highest res image I can upload directly. Very interesting sword. The blade seems to have dimensions and shape typical of the kaskara trade blades, but of course the inscription is very interesting. The highly decorated and oddly styled hilt is extremely unusual to say the least. I'm having a little difficulty fitting the inscription and the rich hilt together since richly decorated swords are not a general feature of that era as far as I'm aware - but pretty much anything is possible if it was a gift. Shame we cannot see the other side. I asked Christies for more pictures, but they never came - maybe they knew I did not have 15,000 GBP to spend Attached Images

8th October 2012, 10:53 PM	#6
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	Hi, According to the Christie's catalogue, as I understand it, this item was part of a collection of Arms and Armour that belonged to Heinrich Schliemann. This sword was the last item of weaponry under that title i.e. 'Arms and Armour from the Collection of Heinrich Schliemann, the Discoverer of Troy'. Other items assigned to this collection were also in the same sale. Regards, Norman. P.S. From Archeologist to Time Traveller. Attached Images Last edited by Norman McCormick; 8th October 2012 at 11:21 PM.

8th October 2012, 08:40 PM	#1
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	This is a very lovely piece. Imho, it could be similar to Rsword's type but with abit of added creativity? :-) it belonged to the same person so it seems.

8th October 2012, 10:41 PM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	Am I the only person who suspects a modern repro viking sword hilt, with the odd spikes added to make the piece look a little more genuine and "africanized"? Teodor

8th October 2012, 10:41 PM	#5
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	My first thought was that it appears to be built from a sword like this one. (There are some swords like this made in India that are much cheaper than the Del Tin one above.)

8th October 2012, 11:13 PM	#8
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	Ouch! This does not look good....

8th October 2012, 11:20 PM	#9
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	That certainly looks like the Del Tin hilt dressed up with a few little extra knobs. The decorative motif is identicle.

9th October 2012, 03:34 AM	#10
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	I would say this is a composite sword. The scabbard has thin rings which indicates it was made post 1950 or so. The older scabbards had wide flattened rings. Looks like someone copied a Viking hilt and added some extra tidbits .