Keris for comments

[Henk]

Originally Posted by David

You will have to explain this a bit further for me Henk because i was completely unaware that in Holland you do not differentiate between keris Panjang, Anak Alang and Bahari. They do all have a similar profile/dhapur, but vary in size. And while there is certainly often debate which category the blade might be when the length falls into the gray zones, keris bahari are usually not confused with panjang or called "executioner keris". As far as i know only the longer keris panjang are the ones that are sometimes referred to as "executioner keris", though i find that name somewhat misleading since i do not believe that execution was the main purpose for this kind of keris. It was more a blade of status AFAIK. Though i had always thought that it was the extra length of these keris panjang that made them suitable to perform execution with the "bloodless" method through the collar bone area. I am not convinced that a 13" blade would be appropriate or effective for that action.

David,

DAHenkel explained it already in his answer.
You would be surprised in how many houses here in Holland a keris or two is hanging on the wall while the owner has no idea of specific categories or names. It is just a piece of art from our history. Nothing more nothing less.

A few years ago a colleague asked me, you collect that stuff, don't you? I have a keris somewhere my father brought home when he serves as a marine in Indonesia. I will bring it for you, maybe you like it. He brought a very nice maduran keris an gave it to me. His brother has a dagger from his father. That dagger was a rencong.

And also collectors who like to hang some swords and daggers on the wall, who have no idea in detail what they have in their collection.

The differences we use here in the forum and the knowledge present here is great. The dutch collectors who participate on this forum and also some important collectors who don't participate on this forum are very aware of these specifications.

But most Dutch will call a Keris Bugis or Keris Palembang just a keris from Sumatra. If you can classify a keris in keris Java, Madura, Bali or Sumatra it is often said, he has knowledge about these things.

[David]

Originally Posted by Henk

But most Dutch will call a Keris Bugis or Keris Palembang just a keris from Sumatra. If you can classify a keris in keris Java, Madura, Bali or Sumatra it is often said, he has knowledge about these things.

Well Henk, in my country most people would refer to any keris as "That weird knife thingy".
From your original statement you gave me the idea that knowledgable collectors in the Netherlands don't make the distinction. That was my only reason for questioning you...

[Royston]

Thanks again Gents.

Yes it was purchased in Glastonbury. The shop new nothing about it's history.

I had never even considered this long enough to be considered as a keris Panjang. I have two of them and they are half as long again as this one.

What about the cup ? Anyone any suggestions on the fit of this ?

Regards
Roy

[David]

Though an attractive form the cup is certainly too large for the hilt, You might want to consider finding a smaller replacement.

[GIO]

Please apologize my ignorance: such blade, and generally all blades without pamor, should be etched as Henk suggests or not ?
I have a few restored Panjang blades, but I did not etch them.

[kai]

Hello Gio,

Please apologize my ignorance: such blade, and generally all blades without pamor, should be etched as Henk suggests or not ?

Some of the pamor-less Javanese blades are meant to be stained black with warangan treatment as you know.

In the Malay world including much of Sumatra, blades of this style are usually kept smooth: polished and only swiftly etched/stained. It stands to reason that the minority, blades with distinct miring pamor, will have benefited from warangan treatment while it is often not clear what the preferred treatment for the huge majority of laminated blades with only low-contrast pamor was in different areas historically. It's likely that this often only was an acid etch with fruit juice or vinegar.

Roy's blade is clearly laminated and this will most probably show nicely with little effort and some gentle etching.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Roy,

What about the cup ? Anyone any suggestions on the fit of this ?

I'm with David, it's obviously a bad replacement (in addition to the non-fit, compare the quality of workmanship...); the ensemble would certainly benefit from a matching pendokok. Old ones are tough to find - you may want to consider having one made in the region?

Regards,
Kai